[Osmf-talk] Proposal - OSMF Should **NOT** Adopt a Code of Conduct

Stefan Keller sfkeller at gmail.com
Mon Dec 4 00:12:42 UTC 2017


Joseph,

You are insinuating things I've never meant. In a discourse it is
sometimes OK to ask for examples when someone has a different feeling
or viewpoint. And past public mailing list posts would be such
examples.

But we are are disgressing now and I hope you agree with me that's not
what we want.

This thread is about a vote against CoC and my final question in my
last post was:

> Would'nt a netiquette have handled that -
> perhaps reminded by others,
> and finally by a moderator or OSMF group member?

:Stefan

2017-12-04 0:24 GMT+01:00 Joseph Reeves <iknowjoseph at gmail.com>:
> Hi Michael,
>
>>Could you offer Stefan alternative ways to express his wish that Emily
>>gives examples/reasons? How should he ask her?
>
> No, because I said:
>
>> Without doubt you will have seen hostility and personal tension on the
>> list
>> over the last couple of weeks. It would be impossible not to see that. But
>> you've asked Emily for a specific instance relating to her. The point is,
>> the hostility and personal tension is discouraging to many people, whether
>> or not it was directed specifically, and personally, towards themselves.
>> Asking for someone to point out a specific instance that they have
>> suffered
>> abuse is not OK, misses the point of Community Standards, and only
>> threatens to worsen the situation.
>
> In reply to:
>
>> It is easy to point on someone else and claiming him to be <bad
>> attribute> but it is not constructive and helpful if you don't explain
>> how to make things better.
>
> In this email thread, and others recently, I have tried to say that
> questioning people's feelings after they've expressed them, isn't an OK
> thing to do.
>
> Lets think of a real world example: If someone said to me "I don't like
> heights" and I replied asking for specific examples of when they'd fallen
> from a high building, I'd look like a bit of a jerk.
>
> Again, to be clear, Emily seemed to be commenting on a general feeling of
> hostility and tension on the mailing list. Nobody can argue with this. But
> the response from Stefan was to ask for a specific instance relating to
> herself: This has a chilling effect on people that say "I don't like the
> atmosphere here, it puts me off contributing, although I haven't suffered
> personally myself".
>
> Another real world example, because I think they're helpful: Imagine you
> went out for a pleasant evening with friends and ended up in a bar in which
> a monumental brawl was happening. One section of the bar is effectively
> dedicated to fighting, it's given a bad atmosphere to the rest of the
> establishment, and it's spoiling your evening with friends. If you say
> "let's leave, I don't like the atmosphere", it would be pretty uncool for
> someone to say "we don't need to leave, nobody's hit you. Why don't you go
> over there and buy some drinks?"
>
> Cheers, Joseph
>
>
>
> On 3 December 2017 at 23:06, Michael Reichert <nakaner at gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joseph,
>>
>> Am 03.12.2017 um 23:56 schrieb Joseph Reeves:
>> > Look again at your email. Emily wrote:
>> >
>> >> but this space feels fraught with hostility and personal tensions
>> >> - some of which goes years back.
>> >
>> > In your response you asked for specific examples that Emily has
>> > suffered:
>> >
>> >> Can you pls. point to a mailing list post where you experienced
>> >> hostility and personal tensions?
>> >
>> > Without doubt you will have seen hostility and personal tension on the
>> > list
>> > over the last couple of weeks. It would be impossible not to see that.
>> > But
>> > you've asked Emily for a specific instance relating to *her. *The point
>> > is,
>> > the hostility and personal tension is discouraging to many people,
>> > whether
>> > or not it was directed specifically, and personally, towards themselves.
>> > Asking for someone to point out a specific instance that they have
>> > suffered
>> > abuse is not OK, misses the point of Community Standards, and only
>> > threatens to worsen the situation.
>>
>> Could you offer Stefan alternative ways to express his wish that Emily
>> gives examples/reasons? How should he ask her?
>>
>> It is easy to point on someone else and claiming him to be <bad
>> attribute> but it is not constructive and helpful if you don't explain
>> how to make things better.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> --
>> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschl├╝sselt. (Mailinglisten
>> ausgenommen)
>> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>>
>>
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>
>
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