[Osmf-talk] Proposal - OSMF Should **NOT** Adopt a Code of Conduct

Rafael Avila Coya ravilacoya at gmail.com
Sun Dec 3 23:48:05 UTC 2017

Hi, Ian:

 > The point of a Code of Conduct is to codify or write down what we think
 > common sense is. As has been pointed out here countless times, not
 > everyone's idea of common sense is the same.

You are right. I agree. So I withraw "common sense" as it is also 



On 04/12/17 00:04, Ian Dees wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Rafael Avila Coya <ravilacoya at gmail.com 
> <mailto:ravilacoya at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     Hi, Emily:
>     On 03/12/17 23:06, Emily Eros wrote:
>         Hi all,
>         As someone who generally doesn't participate in these mailing
>         lists, I very much disagree with this statement:
>         "Some people feel frightened to participate in mailing lists?
>         Well, I think it's very exaggerated and makes me smile in general."
>         I can wholeheartedly say that YES, this is a space that I don't
>         feel comfortable participating in. It's great to see people
>         passionate about OSM, but this space feels fraught with
>         hostility and personal tensions - some of which goes years back.
>         It's easy to feel like saying something is going to leave me
>         feeling attacked. For me, I don't see an obvious way to
>         contribute and try to make this better, so YES, it is very
>         tempting to just disengage. I know I'm not alone in that, so I'd
>         really encourage you to take it seriously when people say that
>         they don't feel comfortable contributing to the mailing lists.
>     I take it very seriously: the sole idea of a CoC makes me frightened
>     and feel unconfortable.
>     I follow and participate in many mailing lists (Spanish, French and
>     English). Tell the talk-es about a CoC and then come here to tell me
>     what they think... And some of the people in favor of a CoC are
>     talking about a CoC for the overall OSM community, no less.
>         To me, it seems like all the loudest voices are the ones having
>         this conversation. As someone who participates less, I can say
>         that the existence of a CoC (carefully drafted, with community
>         input and caution about how to design this well) is something
>         that would make me feel more comfortable here.
>     Loud? We are writing, not talking here.
> I don't mean to speak for Emily, but it's clear that some people post 
> more, use stronger language, and nitpick others' points more than 
> others. I can see how that might be taken to mean "loudest". Constant 
> pointed replies with a clear disinterest in learning or changing your 
> opinion are exhausting and make it hard to participate.
>         "In that context, and without any intention to offend anyone,
>         I'd give more value in this matter to the opinion of people who
>         are more likely to be the victims of harassment and abusive
>         behavior, compared to the opinion of white males who argue out
>         of the safety of their privileged status."
>     White males... privileged status... yes, that's true. But we don't
>     need a CoC for that, we need just common sense and be aware of the
>     little details that lead to genre inequality. We can handle that,
>     maybe with difficulties, but we can, because we are a civilized and
>     healthy community. It's a question of listening to each other, but
>     talking freely, not under presure or autocensorship.
> The point of a Code of Conduct is to codify or write down what we think 
> common sense is. As has been pointed out here countless times, not 
> everyone's idea of common sense is the same. It can vary depending on 
> culture and background. As has been mentioned before (I'll link to this 
> excellent FAQ again: 
> https://www.ashedryden.com/blog/codes-of-conduct-101-faq#cocfaqcensorship), 
> a Code of Conduct isn't designed to censor on-topic, healthy 
> conversation, it's designed to reduce hate speech and make a community 
> more inclusive by showing that the community sticks up for those with 
> less representation.

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