[Osmf-talk] Proposal - OSMF Should **NOT** Adopt a Code of Conduct

Ian Dees ian.dees at gmail.com
Sun Dec 3 23:04:32 UTC 2017

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Rafael Avila Coya <ravilacoya at gmail.com>

> Hi, Emily:
> On 03/12/17 23:06, Emily Eros wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> As someone who generally doesn't participate in these mailing lists, I
>> very much disagree with this statement:
>> "Some people feel frightened to participate in mailing lists? Well, I
>> think it's very exaggerated and makes me smile in general."
>> I can wholeheartedly say that YES, this is a space that I don't feel
>> comfortable participating in. It's great to see people passionate about
>> OSM, but this space feels fraught with hostility and personal tensions -
>> some of which goes years back. It's easy to feel like saying something is
>> going to leave me feeling attacked. For me, I don't see an obvious way to
>> contribute and try to make this better, so YES, it is very tempting to just
>> disengage. I know I'm not alone in that, so I'd really encourage you to
>> take it seriously when people say that they don't feel comfortable
>> contributing to the mailing lists.
> I take it very seriously: the sole idea of a CoC makes me frightened and
> feel unconfortable.
> I follow and participate in many mailing lists (Spanish, French and
> English). Tell the talk-es about a CoC and then come here to tell me what
> they think... And some of the people in favor of a CoC are talking about a
> CoC for the overall OSM community, no less.
>> To me, it seems like all the loudest voices are the ones having this
>> conversation. As someone who participates less, I can say that the
>> existence of a CoC (carefully drafted, with community input and caution
>> about how to design this well) is something that would make me feel more
>> comfortable here.
> Loud? We are writing, not talking here.

I don't mean to speak for Emily, but it's clear that some people post more,
use stronger language, and nitpick others' points more than others. I can
see how that might be taken to mean "loudest". Constant pointed replies
with a clear disinterest in learning or changing your opinion are
exhausting and make it hard to participate.

>> "In that context, and without any intention to offend anyone, I'd give
>> more value in this matter to the opinion of people who are more likely to
>> be the victims of harassment and abusive behavior, compared to the opinion
>> of white males who argue out of the safety of their privileged status."
> White males... privileged status... yes, that's true. But we don't need a
> CoC for that, we need just common sense and be aware of the little details
> that lead to genre inequality. We can handle that, maybe with difficulties,
> but we can, because we are a civilized and healthy community. It's a
> question of listening to each other, but talking freely, not under presure
> or autocensorship.

The point of a Code of Conduct is to codify or write down what we think
common sense is. As has been pointed out here countless times, not
everyone's idea of common sense is the same. It can vary depending on
culture and background. As has been mentioned before (I'll link to this
excellent FAQ again:
a Code of Conduct isn't designed to censor on-topic, healthy conversation,
it's designed to reduce hate speech and make a community more inclusive by
showing that the community sticks up for those with less representation.
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