[Osmf-talk] Orwell was right (was: Candidacy: OSMF Board)
ian.dees at gmail.com
Thu Dec 7 23:00:53 UTC 2017
I agree wholeheartedly, Dan. I really hope we can get back to talking about
OpenStreetMap on this list instead of rehashing old conspiracy theories.
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com> wrote:
> As one of the many onlookers to these emails, who wasn't involved in
> any of that historical dispute, this all comes across to me like
> attempted character assassination. All these strained allusions to
> 1984 and reimaginings of other people's positions. No I do not want an
> on-list debate about "facts" of those historical disputes: imagine how
> much worse the email threads would be than they are now! "He wrote
> this" "Yes but she wrote this" - it would generate heat, no light. The
> personal attacks should stop, please. I'm not commanding that they
> stop, I'm pleading.
> 2017-12-07 22:01 GMT+00:00 Jean-Guilhem Cailton <jgc at arkemie.org>:
> > Dear OSMF Members,
> > I hope that you are able to form your own judgments independently, and
> > follow what could seem to be the dominant message, at least by the
> > of the media and of the position of those who relay it.
> > You have been informed of disturbing facts, about the concerted actions
> of a
> > small group of people, who have a dominating influence over HOT US Inc,
> > possibly over OSMF, as one of them is a candidate to the on-going
> > If these facts were not true, it should have been easy to prove it.
> > as you may have noticed, there has been no answer on the facts
> > but very strongly worded personal attacks against those who reported
> > intended to discredit them. And no answers either when some of the
> > of these ad hominem attacks asked what they were based on.
> > What is really disturbing here is that these things did happen.
> > It is probably difficult to believe the things that others and i reported
> > here, as i couldn’t myself have believed that the things that were
> > could take place in the context of OSM. Yet they did. And the scandal is
> > to report them, but that they happened. And that the persons responsible
> > them have a growing influence within OSM Community.
> > The real issue is the Moon, not the fingers pointing at it, more or less
> > awkwardly.
> > Yet there has been a large volume of discussion about CoCs. I can
> > that some may see some interest in them in certain contexts. But please
> > aware that in the context of HOT US the CoC has been used as a tool for
> > censorship and abuse, by a dominating group who is still very present in
> > this discussion.
> > Blake, informing you that your actions could be considered as violation
> > laws (including those against moral harassment) was not harassment. And
> > returning the accusations of harassment against those who complain about
> > is a classical tactic of real harassers.
> > (And for those who don’t know me, i care for OSM as a volunteer. Not as
> > someone who earns his living in connection with OSM, and who may
> > have a stronger motivation to defend this connection.)
> > What i remember specially strongly from one of these conversation with
> > Blake was when you explained to me, explicitly referring to “1984” by
> > Orwell, that things were going to end up badly for me. And indeed, they
> > end much worse than i could have imagined. (Maybe because i hadn’t yet
> > the novel to the end at the time – Or because i felt it was “only” a
> > But in fact i find it very illuminating to understand the world we live
> > in general, and the actions and communications of this small group to
> > you belong in particular.
> > “History” gets rewritten, depending on the interests of the people in
> > (Or of those requesting grants, as in the example reported by Séverin
> > the initial mapping for Ebola response).
> > Facts get ignored, or despised, along with those who report them.
> > The same person who once explained the wonders accomplished by the
> > self-organizing OSM mappers (right after the response to Haiti
> > now explains with the same conviction that amateurs need to be led by
> > professional to do anything worthwhile. (Professional among whom he is
> > but this is of course only an irrelevant coincidence).
> > Mikel has had for a long time, indeed, this vision of OSM as a
> > Turk”, except than in Amazon version, people get paid, even if not much,
> > their directed work. Not so in OSM, where those who aren’t happy with
> > vision are free to leave. (So this version of free labor can still be
> > considered much better than slavery). “— Mappers are expendable”.
> > So is it really surprising that there are now well established quality
> > problems with the data produced by the beginners that HOT US Inc manages
> > mobilize? Who consciously wants to work for free, for “leaders” who abuse
> > entrusted power for private gain?
> > This is an obvious reason why HOT US is missing experienced mappers and
> > coordinators, after throwing away the experienced volunteers who had
> > successfully coordinated the activations for years. Respect is something
> > human beings need, not just hypocritical nice words.
> > And this is the model you (as voters) are asked to believe is also good
> > OSM in general. By the same person who enforced it in HOT US Inc… I
> > hope that a majority of OSMF voters is able to see through the good
> > sounding, but misleading, discourse from this group.
> > There is a sample of that discourse that hopefully many of you can relate
> > and compare to your own experience, and thus you can check its validity
> > yourself. It’s the story told by Blake, that in his eyes it would be
> > to suggest people (especially women) to attend a small regular OSM
> meetup in
> > his city. I was quite intrigued by this, as others who have reacted too,
> > my experience in meeting OSM volunteers in real life is that they are in
> > general very nice people. (Emails might not always reflect that, because
> > the nature of electronic and intercultural communications). And then, if
> > admitting that these people could be more of a threat to women than the
> > average citizen of the place, the problem would be magically solved by a
> > CoC… I have been unsuccessfully trying to imagine in which part of Earth
> > situation so remote from those I know could happen (†).
> > (†) for the curious, a quick web search shows that this city might be
> > Zürich…
> > (possibly in a parallel Orwellian universe to the one where i think i am
> > living).
> > So here is a suggestion for those who haven’t voted yet and who don’t
> > for who to vote, and who have read “1984”: if you feel that your sympathy
> > goes to O’Brien, and the efficient and well led society he actively
> > promotes, (especially if his methods could be softer, as made possible by
> > the advances since 1948, when the novel was written), vote for Heather.
> > Otherwise, don’t.
> > Best wishes,
> > Jean-Guilhem
> > P.S. : I remember a previous message of mine that was called a “screed”
> > Mikel), several years ago, on the hot list. In it, i had written in
> > particular that it didn’t seem ok that the Executive Director, who
> > a salary from HOT US Inc, was also on the Board. That view was later
> > expressed by someone more important than me, and Kate resigned from the
> > Board, where she was replaced by her friend Heather…
> > --
> > “Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private gain.”
> > International
> > https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/
> > _______________________________________________
> > osmf-talk mailing list
> > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> osmf-talk mailing list
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
More information about the osmf-talk