[Osmf-talk] Orwell was right
Jean-Guilhem Cailton
jgc at arkemie.org
Fri Dec 8 18:50:59 UTC 2017
Le 08/12/2017 à 00:00, Ian Dees a écrit :
> I agree wholeheartedly, Dan. I really hope we can get back to talking
> about OpenStreetMap on this list instead of rehashing old conspiracy
> theories.
“Conspiracy theories”? How do you know the elements described aren’t true?
Is it because they are reported by some foreigners, who don’t know the
right codes to look convincing to you?
You may not care about the past actions of one of the candidates, even
though they show that her discourse about OSM shouldn’t be blindly
trusted. Other members of the OSMF do not have the same perceptions than
you, and i have received thanks off list.
I find that analogies help me to better understand things. You don’t
have to read me if you don’t like or don’t understand what i write.
There are some people, such as Christoph on this list, or Voltaire, who
wanted even things they didn’t agree with to be expressed.
Just think (or read if needed) about the effect that analogous reactions
(“it can’t be true”, “it’s unpleasant to hear about such things”, “it’s
only irrelevant old stories”, etc…) have had on the long kept silence
about sexual harassment, an issue on which things changed only very
recently due to a combination of circumstances, and the courage of a person.
Best wishes,
Jean-Guilhem
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com
> <mailto:danstowell+osm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As one of the many onlookers to these emails, who wasn't involved in
> any of that historical dispute, this all comes across to me like
> attempted character assassination. All these strained allusions to
> 1984 and reimaginings of other people's positions. No I do not want an
> on-list debate about "facts" of those historical disputes: imagine how
> much worse the email threads would be than they are now! "He wrote
> this" "Yes but she wrote this" - it would generate heat, no light. The
> personal attacks should stop, please. I'm not commanding that they
> stop, I'm pleading.
>
> Best
> Dan
>
>
> 2017-12-07 22:01 GMT+00:00 Jean-Guilhem Cailton <jgc at arkemie.org
> <mailto:jgc at arkemie.org>>:
> > Dear OSMF Members,
> >
> > I hope that you are able to form your own judgments
> independently, and not
> > follow what could seem to be the dominant message, at least by
> the strength
> > of the media and of the position of those who relay it.
> >
> > You have been informed of disturbing facts, about the concerted
> actions of a
> > small group of people, who have a dominating influence over HOT
> US Inc, and
> > possibly over OSMF, as one of them is a candidate to the
> on-going election.
> >
> > If these facts were not true, it should have been easy to prove
> it. Instead,
> > as you may have noticed, there has been no answer on the facts
> themselves,
> > but very strongly worded personal attacks against those who
> reported them,
> > intended to discredit them. And no answers either when some of
> the witnesses
> > of these ad hominem attacks asked what they were based on.
> >
> > What is really disturbing here is that these things did happen.
> >
> > It is probably difficult to believe the things that others and i
> reported
> > here, as i couldn’t myself have believed that the things that
> were happening
> > could take place in the context of OSM. Yet they did. And the
> scandal is not
> > to report them, but that they happened. And that the persons
> responsible for
> > them have a growing influence within OSM Community.
> >
> > The real issue is the Moon, not the fingers pointing at it, more
> or less
> > awkwardly.
> >
> > Yet there has been a large volume of discussion about CoCs. I
> can understand
> > that some may see some interest in them in certain contexts. But
> please be
> > aware that in the context of HOT US the CoC has been used as a
> tool for
> > censorship and abuse, by a dominating group who is still very
> present in
> > this discussion.
> >
> > Blake, informing you that your actions could be considered as
> violation of
> > laws (including those against moral harassment) was not
> harassment. And
> > returning the accusations of harassment against those who
> complain about it
> > is a classical tactic of real harassers.
> >
> > (And for those who don’t know me, i care for OSM as a volunteer.
> Not as
> > someone who earns his living in connection with OSM, and who may
> obviously
> > have a stronger motivation to defend this connection.)
> >
> >
> > What i remember specially strongly from one of these
> conversation with you
> > Blake was when you explained to me, explicitly referring to
> “1984” by George
> > Orwell, that things were going to end up badly for me. And
> indeed, they did
> > end much worse than i could have imagined. (Maybe because i
> hadn’t yet read
> > the novel to the end at the time – Or because i felt it was
> “only” a novel).
> >
> > But in fact i find it very illuminating to understand the world
> we live in,
> > in general, and the actions and communications of this small
> group to which
> > you belong in particular.
> >
> > “History” gets rewritten, depending on the interests of the
> people in power.
> > (Or of those requesting grants, as in the example reported by
> Séverin about
> > the initial mapping for Ebola response).
> >
> > Facts get ignored, or despised, along with those who report them.
> >
> > The same person who once explained the wonders accomplished by the
> > self-organizing OSM mappers (right after the response to Haiti
> earthquake),
> > now explains with the same conviction that amateurs need to be
> led by
> > professional to do anything worthwhile. (Professional among whom
> he is now,
> > but this is of course only an irrelevant coincidence).
> >
> > Mikel has had for a long time, indeed, this vision of OSM as a
> “Mechanical
> > Turk”, except than in Amazon version, people get paid, even if
> not much, for
> > their directed work. Not so in OSM, where those who aren’t happy
> with this
> > vision are free to leave. (So this version of free labor can
> still be
> > considered much better than slavery). “— Mappers are expendable”.
> >
> > So is it really surprising that there are now well established
> quality
> > problems with the data produced by the beginners that HOT US Inc
> manages to
> > mobilize? Who consciously wants to work for free, for “leaders”
> who abuse
> > entrusted power for private gain?
> >
> > This is an obvious reason why HOT US is missing experienced
> mappers and
> > coordinators, after throwing away the experienced volunteers who had
> > successfully coordinated the activations for years. Respect is
> something all
> > human beings need, not just hypocritical nice words.
> >
> > And this is the model you (as voters) are asked to believe is
> also good for
> > OSM in general. By the same person who enforced it in HOT US
> Inc… I really
> > hope that a majority of OSMF voters is able to see through the good
> > sounding, but misleading, discourse from this group.
> >
> > There is a sample of that discourse that hopefully many of you
> can relate
> > and compare to your own experience, and thus you can check its
> validity by
> > yourself. It’s the story told by Blake, that in his eyes it
> would be unsafe
> > to suggest people (especially women) to attend a small regular
> OSM meetup in
> > his city. I was quite intrigued by this, as others who have
> reacted too, as
> > my experience in meeting OSM volunteers in real life is that
> they are in
> > general very nice people. (Emails might not always reflect that,
> because of
> > the nature of electronic and intercultural communications). And
> then, if
> > admitting that these people could be more of a threat to women
> than the
> > average citizen of the place, the problem would be magically
> solved by a
> > CoC… I have been unsuccessfully trying to imagine in which part
> of Earth a
> > situation so remote from those I know could happen (†).
> >
> >
> > (†) for the curious, a quick web search shows that this city
> might be
> > Zürich…
> > (possibly in a parallel Orwellian universe to the one where i
> think i am
> > living).
> >
> > So here is a suggestion for those who haven’t voted yet and who
> don’t know
> > for who to vote, and who have read “1984”: if you feel that your
> sympathy
> > goes to O’Brien, and the efficient and well led society he actively
> > promotes, (especially if his methods could be softer, as made
> possible by
> > the advances since 1948, when the novel was written), vote for
> Heather.
> > Otherwise, don’t.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Jean-Guilhem
> >
> >
> > P.S. : I remember a previous message of mine that was called a
> “screed” (by
> > Mikel), several years ago, on the hot list. In it, i had written in
> > particular that it didn’t seem ok that the Executive Director,
> who received
> > a salary from HOT US Inc, was also on the Board. That view was later
> > expressed by someone more important than me, and Kate resigned
> from the
> > Board, where she was replaced by her friend Heather…
> >
> > --
> > “Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private gain.”
> Transparency
> > International
> >
> https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations
> <https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osmf-talk mailing list
> > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> osmf-talk mailing list
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> osmf-talk mailing list
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
--
"Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private gain."
Transparency International
https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/attachments/20171208/2e997198/attachment.html>
More information about the osmf-talk
mailing list