[Osmf-talk] Framework for the foundation's hiring practices
Allan Mustard
allan at mustard.net
Mon May 11 17:52:28 UTC 2020
Severin, et al,
English below
Ceci est une réponse au point 1 du rapport de retour d'information,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/apm-wa/diary/392767, que je vous
invite à lire. Il ne reste plus que deux administrateurs système pour
l'ensemble du réseau. Nous n'avons pas réussi à recruter des
administrateurs système volontaires supplémentaires. Il est également
nécessaire de travailler sur le logiciel de base (API, site web) au-delà
des contraintes de temps des développeurs de logiciels volontaires.
(Traduit avec www.DeepL.com/Translator (version gratuite))
This is in response to Item 1 in the feedback report,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/apm-wa/diary/392767, which I urge you
to read. We are down to two sysadmins for the entire network. We have
been unsuccessful in recruiting additional volunteer sysadmins. There
is also a need to work on the core software (API, website) beyond the
time constraints of volunteer software developers.
apm
On 5/11/2020 10:27 AM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote:
> +1
>
> Am Mo., 11. Mai 2020 um 15:17 Uhr schrieb severin.menard via osmf-talk
> <osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>>:
>
> English below
>
> Il y a quatre ans [1] le board de l’OSMF, suite à de longues
> discussions (voir les liens dans [1]) lançait le recrutement d’un
> contrat à temps partiel dédié spécifiquement en soutien du board
> concernant différentes tâches administratives, de communication et
> d’organisation. Il demeurait néanmoins des réticences au sein des
> membres actifs de la communauté dans les activités de la Fondation
> de voir s’instaurer un premier cas de travail non bénévole au sein
> de l’OSMF.
>
> Maintenant, le board communique sur la volonté de mettre en place
> un cadre de contractualisation, sans aucunement indiquer les
> besoins à remplir (seulement ceux que les volontaires
> n’accompliraient pas) ou les postes qui seraient créés, en
> indiquant quelques cadres et limites, parfois très vagues (moins
> de 20 employés en 5 ans).
>
> Mais surtout, la question posée à la communauté n’est plus SI
> cette approche est la bonne, mais COMMENT la mettre en place.
> Comment un tel changement d’approche a-t-il pu survenir en cinq ans ?
>
> Certes, la seule expérience jusqu’ici de contractualisation de
> l’OSMF a donné entière satisfaction, mais cela tient sans doute
> autant aux tâches spécifiques de la fonction qu’à la personne qui
> a été engagée. Vouloir répliquer cette expérience en changeant
> cette fois complètement d’échelle aura nécessairement des
> répercussions, et je rejoins totalement Frederik dans son analyse
> sur les dangers inhérents à faire appel à de nombreux
> contractuels. Avec ses fonds actuels, l’OSMF aurait nettement plus
> intérêt à assurer sur le long terme le fonctionnement mince actuel
> avant que de s’engager sur une augmentation de ses dépenses qui ne
> fera que pérenniser un besoin croissant de fonds, d’autant plus au
> moment où le monde va entrer dans la crise économique la plus
> profonde et globale de son histoire.
>
> Quels sont les besoins non accomplis par les volontaires et
> comment sont-ils définis ?
>
> S’agit-il de couvrir des besoins essentiels sans aucun temps
> volontaire disponible, ou bien ces besoins rejoignent une volonté
> de meilleure efficience ? Vouloir par exemple être capables
> s’assurer une continuité de service 24/7 (ou même de quelques
> heures) va évidemment au-delà de ce que des volontaires peuvent
> assurer, mais est-ce vraiment ce que la Fondation a besoin de
> mettre en place, au vu des contraintes et conséquences que cela
> imposerait ?
>
> Par ailleurs, revient comme souvent dans la discussion le mantra
> de s’inspirer de ce que des structures professionnelles mettent en
> place, quitte de risquer d’en modifier son essence. OSM a réussi
> là où tous les acteurs économiques avaient échoué par le passé et
> échouent encore aujourd’hui à répliquer. Le mantra devrait au
> contraire de ne PAS chercher à intégrer ce qui pourrait tordre
> l’essence même de ce qu’est OSM.
>
>
> [1]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2016-April/003712.html
>
>
> Severin
>
> ------------------------
>
> Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
> <http://www.DeepL.com/Translator> (free version)
>
> Four years ago [1] the OSMF board, after long discussions (see
> links in [1]) launched the recruitment of a dedicated part-time
> contract specifically to support the board in various
> administrative, communication and organizational tasks.
> Nevertheless, there was still reluctance among active members of
> the community in the Foundation's activities to see a first case
> of non-volunteer work within the OSMF.
> Now, the board is communicating on the desire to put in place a
> contractualization framework, without in any way indicating the
> needs to be met (only those that the volunteers would not fulfil)
> or the positions that would be created, indicating a few
> frameworks and limits, sometimes very vague (less than 20
> employees in 5 years).
> Most importantly, the question asked to the community is no longer
> IF this approach is the right one, but HOW to implement it. How
> has such a change in approach been possible in five years?
> Admittedly, the only experience to date of contractualization of
> the OSMF has been entirely satisfactory, but this is no doubt due
> as much to the specific tasks of the position as to the person who
> was hired. Wanting to replicate this experience, this time by
> completely changing scale, will necessarily have repercussions,
> and I totally agree with Frederik in his analysis of the dangers
> inherent in calling on a large number of contract workers. With
> its current funds, the OSMF would have much more interest in
> assuring its current slim operation over the long term before
> committing itself to an increase in its expenditures, which will
> only perpetuate a growing need for funds, especially at a time
> when the world is about to enter the deepest and most global
> economic crisis in its history.
> What are the unfulfilled needs of volunteers and how are they defined?
> Is it a question of covering essential needs without any volunteer
> time available, or are these needs linked to a desire for greater
> efficiency? For example, wanting to be able to ensure continuity
> of service 24/7 (or even for a few hours) obviously goes beyond
> what volunteers can provide, but is this really what the
> Foundation needs to put in place, given the constraints and
> consequences this would impose?
> Moreover, as often in the discussion, the mantra comes back to be
> inspired by what professional structures put in place, even if it
> means risking to change its essence. OSM has succeeded where all
> economic actors have failed in the past and are still failing
> today to respond. On the contrary, the mantra should NOT seek to
> integrate what could twist the very essence of what OSM is.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2016-April/003712.html
>
>
> Severin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> Le samedi 9 mai 2020 20:19, Christopher Beddow
> <christopher.beddow at gmail.com
> <mailto:christopher.beddow at gmail.com>> a écrit :
>
>> I think we should take a deeper look into how Wikimedia
>> Foundation handles this. They are based in the US but hire people
>> globally. Having worked remotely as a US citizen for a Swedish
>> company, it seems fairly clear to me that it's not a huge hurdle
>> to simple register the organization in a couple countries for
>> employment purposes and hire people from around the world without
>> absolute location requirements. Others may feel very differently
>> but Wikimedia appears to accomplish this well, as do HOT and others.
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 19:56 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch
>> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 09.05.2020 um 01:32 schrieb Allan Mustard:
>> >
>> >
>> > Simon,
>> >
>> > That's one of the questions we want the community to help
>> us suss
>> > out. Direct-hire, contract, or third-party hire? What
>> does the
>> > community suggest?
>>
>> Direct-hire is (too?) complex if the employees are not
>> already there /
>> or can be relocated to where ever your place of business is
>> or can be
>> employed by an in country subsidiary. An additional
>> complicating factor
>> is that the OSMF is no longer domiciled in the EU/in a
>> country with free
>> movement with the EU. If it was, direct-hire would be far far
>> more
>> viable as it would be possible to relocate people at least
>> within the EU
>> with near zero red tape. The cynical approach to this is that
>> the UK is
>> going to be a cheap labour country going forward anyway, so
>> we might as
>> well stay there and employ locals.
>>
>> Contract (assuming full time employment/single employer) is
>> legally not
>> an option in a great number of countries (except if you want
>> to leave
>> the OSMF open to all kind of potential legal action and
>> costs), and
>> essentially boils down to only employing people from
>> countries with none
>> or little employee protection (which do exist naturally). Not
>> to mention
>> that shady employment practices may impact the OSMFs ability
>> to raise
>> the necessary funds to start with.
>>
>> I don't have a strong opinion on third-party hire, this is
>> obviously
>> possible, the commercial route might be a bit expensive, but
>> assuming
>> employing via local chapters that already have staff it might
>> be viable.
>>
>> tl;dr version: there are reasons why real companies are
>> typically not
>> totally remote and virtual.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> >
>> > apm
>> >
>> > On 5/8/2020 6:01 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
>> > > Tobias
>> >
>> > > Could you clarify if the board actual means "employee"
>> when it is using
>> > > the term or if the actual intent is to simply contract
>> work out.
>> >
>> > > The legal issues with both variants are rather
>> convoluted, but
>> > different.
>> >
>> > > Simon
>> >
>> > > Am 06.05.2020 um 22:24 schrieb Tobias Knerr:
>> > >> Hi all,
>> > >>
>> > >> the OSMF Board wants to think about a general framework
>> to hire people
>> > >> to fill in the gaps that volunteers can't fill. We
>> believe that, given
>> > >> good practices and firm boundaries, hiring people would
>> be worthwhile.
>> > >> It could ensure the continued stability of the OSM
>> platform (servers,
>> > >> integral software) among other things, and augment the
>> currently
>> > >> overworked volunteers and under resourced efforts in the
>> face of
>> > >> continued growth.
>> > >>
>> > >> We would like to gather your input on strategies to have
>> the highest
>> > >> possible positive impact at an acceptable cost, and with
>> as few
>> > negative
>> > >> effects as possible.
>> > >>
>> > >> We had a brainstorm about this during the screen2screen,
>> and these are
>> > >> some things we all agree on:
>> > >>
>> > >> * We strongly prefer not to hire when there are adequate
>> volunteer
>> > >> options. In particular, we are not going to engage in
>> paid mapping.
>> > >> * We need to define criteria for when we -can’t- wait for
>> > volunteers to
>> > >> step up.
>> > >> * We do not want to grow an army of employees. We do not
>> envision 20
>> > >> employees within 5 years, let alone 200!
>> > >> * We want to make employees cooperate remotely, and
>> through the same
>> > >> platforms that volunteer contributors to that project
>> also use.
>> > >> * We should make sure all employees are treated equitably.
>> > >> * People with an OSM volunteer background should be
>> preferred (because
>> > >> it demonstrates qualifications, added trustworthiness,
>> and is the right
>> > >> thing to do), but we don't agree to which degree.
>> > >> * We want to avoid paid leadership or decision-making
>> positions
>> > >> * We want people to work for the community, not for the
>> Board. But we
>> > >> also do not want employees to have 10,000 bosses -
>> that's a recipe for
>> > >> burnout.
>> > >>
>> > >> Some of the risks we hope the community can help address
>> include the
>> > >> following:
>> > >> * Paid work can have a chilling effect on volunteering.
>> > >> * Paid staff has other incentives than volunteers.
>> > >> * Paid staff has more power to set direction of the
>> project than a
>> > >> volunteer, if only because of the amount of time they have.
>> > >> * Paid staff hired from outside the community may lack
>> an understanding
>> > >> and appreciation for the way the community works.
>> > >> * A direct link between organizations providing funding
>> and a job being
>> > >> done might give those organizations undue power.
>> > >> * The organization that decides what gets worked on
>> becomes quite
>> > >> powerful, which risks losing the benefits of do-ocracy.
>> > >>
>> > >> We know there are many issues with hiring people, but we
>> hope that we
>> > >> can install meaningful guardrails against the risks.
>> Your input will
>> > >> help us devise a strategy that makes sure we define the
>> right jobs and
>> > >> hire the right people for them.
>> > >>
>> > >> Feel free to share your ideas here or send them to
>> > board at osmfoundation.org <mailto:board at osmfoundation.org>
>> > >>
>> > >> Tobias
>> > >> (for the OSMF board)
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> osmf-talk mailing list
>> > >> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>> >
>> >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > osmf-talk mailing list
>> > > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> <mailto:osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>>
>>
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>>
>
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>
> --
> ## Manfred Reiter - -
> ## www.weeklyOSM.eu <http://www.weeklyOSM.eu>
> ## https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EuYoutH_OSM
> ## https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EuYoutH_OSM/Saarburg
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