[Osmf-talk] Organised editing activity request by commercial company - Talk-Africa - TomTom

Bert -Araali- Van Opstal bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
Mon Feb 15 21:28:43 UTC 2021

Thank you Pierre and other list members,

I am very well aware of the problems with the talk pages and
communities, "I am one of them". Very true remarks about the road
tagging schemes and they refer to
which lists only a single African Country.  We, the local African
community and HOT teams do use
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa and
East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines. We are working on local standards to
match these with official classifications like national A, B, C roads,
district urban and feeder roads and local roads, but with our limited
resources and few who dare to speak out it takes a bit longer.

My request was also targeted at to which extend it would be appropriate
to ask them for donations, through the local chapters / communities and
Christoph his answer gave me a good direction.
The answers regarding the way OSM could be evolving with to large scale
or number of these projects raises concerns. I am also very concerned
about the vulnerability of our community due to our limited (financial)
resources, but without I fear we never get broader support or interest
from our local communities. I see it as an opportunity to grow the
community but at the same time I think there is a need for some
monitoring from the foundation, not to interfere in the mapping
activities but more in governance.  We can't expect that these
vulnerable communities are able to self-governance. We will appreciate
if you allow us to do so but we need backup and more close support from
a body as the foundation, especially in regard to financially powerful
companies like TomTom, Uber and Google alike.


Bert Araali

On 15/02/2021 22:43, Pierre Béland wrote:
> Hi Bert,
> African communities are often small with limited access to internet.
> And we have the same problem even in countries with more
> contributors.  It is difficult to monitor  these multitude projects,
> either on Maproulette, the Task Managers or other organized editing
> activities, to know how many, the extents of these projects and what
> they cover exactly.
> In this case, the objective is to revise the roads it seems. I cannot
> access MapRoulette presently and not sure it would show the extent of
> the mapping.   The organizers refer to the wiki
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence
> while in Africa since 2013 we use the specific wiki
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa that better
> respond to the African context. Reference is made to it in the
> previous page, but we have to be carefull to see this mention.
> My comments below are more general about how we could try to better
> follow these projects.
> Without any tools to follow these activities, the risk with the
> multitude of partners projects, is that big organizations control more
> and more in which direction is going OpenStreetMap.
> We really need better monitoring tools  to follow and react to these
> projects. And the first step would be to have an overview of these
> projects, the contacts, their extent, and Changeset variables to link
> to these projects.
> To create a wiki page of each project is not enough for us to monitor
> the multittude of projects.
> It could be a requirement for the organizers to aliment an Organized
> Editing Database with their projects, description, contacts, training,
> mapping / validation progress, etc.
> A Map tool could use such information to provide an overview and
> better monitor, interact with organizers.
> Pierre
> Le lundi 15 février 2021 11 h 47 min 27 s UTC−5, Bert -Araali- Van
> Opstal <bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com> a écrit :
> Dear need your advise on a recent post in Talk-Africa:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-africa/2021-February/000570.html.
> My concerns:
> 1 do we allow commercial companies, who are not company members of the
> OSMF, to advertise on our wiki ? See:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/TomTom.
> Is there any verification process that this is not a hoax or phishing
> attempt, is anyone aware of the presence of TomTom on our wiki and
> their activities ?
> 2 seems like they have organised themself to make a team to import or
> at least use TomTom data to "improve" data on OSM. Any Licensing
> concerns since I can find no traces of any License agreement or what
> that they are referring to as their database ?
> 3 If the message is real and cannot cause any licensing issues, it
> looks interesting to me, but maybe even more the OSM Africa local
> chapters and the broader OSM community to contribute, since it is like
> a mutual exchange of data. Can anyone inform them since Talk-Africa
> has hardly any active members.
> 4 Would it be wrong to request at least for compensation of expenses
> from TomTom if someone or a local chapter contributes ?
> Your prompt responses would be highly appreciated,
> Kind regards,
> Bert Araali
> _______________________________________________
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