[Osmf-talk] Organised editing activity request by commercial company - Talk-Africa - TomTom

Bert -Araali- Van Opstal bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
Mon Feb 15 21:28:43 UTC 2021


Thank you Pierre and other list members,

I am very well aware of the problems with the talk pages and
communities, "I am one of them". Very true remarks about the road
tagging schemes and they refer to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalenc
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence>
which lists only a single African Country.  We, the local African
community and HOT teams do use
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa and
East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines. We are working on local standards to
match these with official classifications like national A, B, C roads,
district urban and feeder roads and local roads, but with our limited
resources and few who dare to speak out it takes a bit longer.

My request was also targeted at to which extend it would be appropriate
to ask them for donations, through the local chapters / communities and
Christoph his answer gave me a good direction.
The answers regarding the way OSM could be evolving with to large scale
or number of these projects raises concerns. I am also very concerned
about the vulnerability of our community due to our limited (financial)
resources, but without I fear we never get broader support or interest
from our local communities. I see it as an opportunity to grow the
community but at the same time I think there is a need for some
monitoring from the foundation, not to interfere in the mapping
activities but more in governance.  We can't expect that these
vulnerable communities are able to self-governance. We will appreciate
if you allow us to do so but we need backup and more close support from
a body as the foundation, especially in regard to financially powerful
companies like TomTom, Uber and Google alike.

Greetings,

Bert Araali

On 15/02/2021 22:43, Pierre Béland wrote:
> Hi Bert,
>
> African communities are often small with limited access to internet.
> And we have the same problem even in countries with more
> contributors.  It is difficult to monitor  these multitude projects,
> either on Maproulette, the Task Managers or other organized editing
> activities, to know how many, the extents of these projects and what
> they cover exactly.
>
> In this case, the objective is to revise the roads it seems. I cannot
> access MapRoulette presently and not sure it would show the extent of
> the mapping.   The organizers refer to the wiki
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence
> while in Africa since 2013 we use the specific wiki
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa that better
> respond to the African context. Reference is made to it in the
> previous page, but we have to be carefull to see this mention.
>
> My comments below are more general about how we could try to better
> follow these projects.
>
> Without any tools to follow these activities, the risk with the
> multitude of partners projects, is that big organizations control more
> and more in which direction is going OpenStreetMap.
>
> We really need better monitoring tools  to follow and react to these
> projects. And the first step would be to have an overview of these
> projects, the contacts, their extent, and Changeset variables to link
> to these projects.
>
> To create a wiki page of each project is not enough for us to monitor
> the multittude of projects.
> It could be a requirement for the organizers to aliment an Organized
> Editing Database with their projects, description, contacts, training,
> mapping / validation progress, etc.
>
> A Map tool could use such information to provide an overview and
> better monitor, interact with organizers.
>  
> Pierre
>
>
> Le lundi 15 février 2021 11 h 47 min 27 s UTC−5, Bert -Araali- Van
> Opstal <bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>
> Dear need your advise on a recent post in Talk-Africa:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-africa/2021-February/000570.html.
>
> My concerns:
>
> 1 do we allow commercial companies, who are not company members of the
> OSMF, to advertise on our wiki ? See:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/TomTom.
> Is there any verification process that this is not a hoax or phishing
> attempt, is anyone aware of the presence of TomTom on our wiki and
> their activities ?
>
> 2 seems like they have organised themself to make a team to import or
> at least use TomTom data to "improve" data on OSM. Any Licensing
> concerns since I can find no traces of any License agreement or what
> that they are referring to as their database ?
>
> 3 If the message is real and cannot cause any licensing issues, it
> looks interesting to me, but maybe even more the OSM Africa local
> chapters and the broader OSM community to contribute, since it is like
> a mutual exchange of data. Can anyone inform them since Talk-Africa
> has hardly any active members.
>
> 4 Would it be wrong to request at least for compensation of expenses
> from TomTom if someone or a local chapter contributes ?
>
> Your prompt responses would be highly appreciated,
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Bert Araali
>
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