[Osmf-talk] Open letter from the Moderation Team

[Chris Andrew]

Thank you for the update, Allan.

I don't post to the mailing list, very often, so didn't "wade in" to the
mess. If this was taking place at my work, I would have called it out, as
the behaviours weren't acceptable.

My view here sadly, is that if the mailing list wants to self destruct,
then so be it. As an open source initiative, interested and motivated
people will fill the void.

I wasn't aware of the etiquette guide, but am pleased to see it referenced.
Sadly, as they say, you can't "legislate" for common sense and/ or good
manners.

I wondered whether maybe the platform was the problem, but this is a
distraction. Whether using Discord/ Discourse, a forum, or something else,
it's not the medium that's the issue, it's the membership/ contributors,
and how they are managed.

Speaking as a neurodivergent contributor, I know that I sometimes have to
actively moderate myself, as what's in my head, is not always what should
exit!

Like others, I too almost hit the Unsubscribe button, but having
contributed since about 2007, I don't see why poor behaviours should force
me out.

I have no clear idea of who the "main players" are, and one paragraph
biographies, don't highlight the "people skills", or capture bad behaviours
such as we've been experiencing.

I hope that the contributions can be moderated, if necessary (is this in
the Etiquette?), and "offenders" dealt with in line with the agreed
standard/s.

My experience tells me that no one in the team, is too big to leave
unchallenged; if people are persistently falling foul of the standard, then
they need to be managed.

We all have strong opinions, but we need to know when to step-back. Having
strong views about a whole new ontology/ semantics for metadata of tagging
for "a new type of snow", or something, is not worth throwing a hand
grenade into our community, for.

Let's try to get on, or many will hit the Unsubscribe button, and move
energy into the long list of other open source mapping projects that need
help.

The above is just my opinion, and is meant to be positive, yet realistic.
If anyone wants to start an argument over the above, count me out; like
most, I really have better things to spend my time on.

Chris
chris_debian
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/chris_debian



On Tue, 29 Oct 2024, 15:58 Allan Mustard, <allanpmustard at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Moderation Team[1] was distressed by the tone and content of several
> messages posted to the OSMF-talk list during the month of October. After
> admonishing privately two long-standing OSMF members for violating the
> Etiquette Guidelines[2], the Moderation Team was surprised to see a dispute
> erupt that quickly spun out of control and degenerated into bickering and
> exchanges of ad hominem attacks. Complaints were registered with us and
> additionally, several people almost simultaneously unsubscribed from
> osmf-talk.
>
> The Moderation Team followed up with the unsubscribers and confirmed their
> motives. Not all left the list and quit the OSM Foundation because of the
> tone of the communications that disgusted them, but at least four did.
> Among their comments were
>
> "...I unsubscribed because I find the tone of discussions to be
> systematically unpleasant and aggressive."
>
> "...We need transparency yes, but at the same time we don't need to attack
> each other. I was personally getting annoyed with the discussion tones. We
> need solutions not pin pointing each other. We need team work not
> manipulators or people looking to get a spotlight each time."
>
> "...I just find that every time there is a board meeting announced (I
> believe that is the trigger) there is a flurry of posts that typically get
> into the weeds all arguing about this and that. To me it is just too
> tiresome. It seems mostly anti collaborative -- not appearing to strive
> together to create a better world, but rather complaining about actions or
> inactions of various "leaders" of the organization."
>
> "...I was maybe a bit irritated with the internal politics."
>
> The Etiquette Guidelines were established to promote broader participation
> in the work of the OSM project. Failure to adhere to the Guidelines drives
> people away, which harms the project. It's really that simple. The
> Moderation Team calls on all OSMF members to observe the Guidelines, and if
> you have any doubts about whether something you are posting in the heat of
> an emotional response might violate them, we suggest that you stop, put it
> aside for an hour, and come back after taking time to contemplate whether
> your post will help or hurt the project.
>
> For the Moderation Team,
> Allan Mustard
>
> [1]
> https://osmfoundation.org/wiki/Moderation_team_for_talk_and_osmf-talk_mailing_lists
> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette/Etiquette_Guidelines
>
> _______________________________________________
> osmf-talk mailing list
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>
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