[Tagging] steel worker and smaller concrete structures on site

M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist at gmail.com
Sat Apr 16 02:08:00 BST 2011


2011/4/15 Peter Wendorff <wendorff at uni-paderborn.de>:
> On the other hand we in Germany - probably in the German speaking countries
> in general (but I'm not sure) do not consequently distinguish between making
> cuffins and making furniture - although there are words for either historic
> meaning - Tischler (where Tisch is the desk) and Schreiner (were Schrein is
> an old word for a cuffin).


Before this gets into philosophy: AFAIK "Schrein" is an old word for
storage containers like cabinets / boxes. There have been a lot of
subtypes: "Geldschreine, Bücherschreine, Kleiderschreine,
Aktenschreine oder Schriftscheine, zur Bewahrung der Schriften und
Akten, daher nannte man ehemals einen Archivar Schreinhalter;
Speiseschreine, Silberschreine, Juwelenschreinchen,..."
This is from an encyclopedia  (J. G. Krünitz) published from 1773 to
1858 and other dictionaries say the same. The usage for coffins is
simply one box out of many kinds of boxes and nothing special.

The words "Tischler" and "Schreiner" are synonyms, also historically,
they have their roots in different parts of Germany.

Sorry for this deviation, there is really no sense for doing German
ethymology on the English list when the meaning and usage of the words
in German is clear.


> Yes - the "Zimmermann", building the mostly wooden parts of houses is
> distinguished commonly from these, but the first distinction is missing.


Yes, the main distinction is between structural work (walls, floors,
roofs, (stairs)) and interiour finishing like pavements, claddings,
ceilings, handrails, (stairs) etc.


> In English it seems the distinction is a different one.


Yes, it seems that carpentry comprises a wide range of subdivions.
Some are assimilable distinctions (framer, joiner, cabinet_maker) and
others are differentiated slightly different.

Honestly I find it hard to believe that there is no basic distinction
done between wood and steel as mentioned before in this thread,
because they require completely different tools and skills, but I do
not exclude it (then there will be subtypes).


What should be clarified is the definition of "carpenter":
- are joiners and cabinet_makers also part of carpenters? Are framers
carpenters?
- do carpenters really do structural steel work?


> I assume that's based in the historic craft system in Germany making hard
> distinctions between the single crafts strictly organized per city in
> midage.


During the middle ages the guild system was (and partially still is)
widespread throughout whole Europe, this is not only a German
phenomenon. Some countries forbid this later, e.g. in France during
the French revolution.

Cheers,
Martin

PS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremio
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_%28Ancien_R%C3%A9gime%29
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilde_%28beroepsgroep%29
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporazioni_delle_arti_e_mestieri
...



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