[Tagging] Data redundancy with "ref" tag on ways vs relations
frederik at remote.org
Wed Aug 1 18:01:21 BST 2012
On 08/01/2012 04:01 PM, Simone Saviolo wrote:
> What would consumers' assumptions be, reasonably?
I think that we are talking too much about consumers here.
OpenStreetMap mappers are *already* providing a tremendous value to many
"consumers" around the world, no matter how limited and chaotic their
data model might be.
It is possible that consumers would like to have data in a different
format but I believe that it is not asking too much if we expect them to
invest a little work themselves, to bring the data into the shape they want.
There are many situations where the demands of consumers are out of line
with what comes easy to mappers. And honestly, I think it is rather
brazen to come along and demand that mappers do something differently
just because it would make life even easier for one specific use case or
one specific consumer.
> That any ways with the
> same value in a given tag would have to be considered a single thing? I
> have examples of separate streets with the same name in the same city,
> not separate, non-connected parts of the same street, mind you. A
> relation here would describe the reality without fail, and much more
You are free to *create* such a relation if you think it is useful.
The only thing we don't want is that you start telling everyone else
that *they* should be creating relations for that.
> When I see this thread (and others like this) and all the resistance
> (with little arguments) that any proposed change causes at
> global OSM level,
The hubris lies in proposing anything at the "global OSM level". There
are *very* few things that are truly global - the fact that we have
nodes and ways, or that a tag can only be so long, or that you mustn't
copy stuff from copyrighted maps or invent fantasy data.
> According to your reasoning, Germans should tell us how to map because
> they make tools and consumers. Is this correct?
Tools must serve mappers. Everything in OSM must be geared towards
making contribution easy for mappers. Anything else is secondary;
consumers are totally unimportant. Not because we don't want OSM to be
usable - but because there is such a tremendous value in OSM that any
difficulties in usability *will* be overcome by those who want to use
OSM - we don't even have to waste time thinking about that.
As for Germans, I don't know what you are talking about. There are three
major OSM editors and Germans don't form the majority of contributors to
any of them. JOSM's inventor and current maintainer are from Germany but
as far as I can see, the active JOSM developer group is fairly
international, or at least pan-European. Major quality checking tools
are from the UK (ITO), Germany (OSM Inspector), Austria (Keepright),
France (Osmose) and others. As for rendering software, none of the major
renderers (Mapnik/TileMill, Maperitive, kothic) have had significant
German input, and neither have the widely-used map styles.
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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