[Tagging] Naming boundary ways

A.Pirard.Papou A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com
Fri Oct 5 19:30:47 BST 2012


I'm resending this because the lists, which are tables, are garbage in 
the log.
The source of the HTML message is displayed (unformatted).
I complained, but they replied that my complaint is "invalid"  !!!
(Shouldn't we open a freely accessible Gmail account to log the list?)
Sorry for the noise.   I'll be back later.  MANY THANKS SO FAR!
---------------------------
Hello,

Please do not only reply technically (once), please state your 
preferences (sort of poll).

This is how, traditionally, municipalities, provinces, ..., countries, 
continents are traced.

A: The land area is a polygon relation assembling the border pieces, 
with following tags:
type=boundary
admin_level=8, or 7, or ...  for municipality, or province, or ...
name=*   (e.g. town or country)
... others describing the area, such as postal code, ...

B: This is how a boundary way (border line piece) is tagged:
boundary=administrative
admin_level=8, or 7, or ...
name=?
plus possible non-boundary data indicating material object such as 
waterway=*

1) While the A name= of the relation is the name of the area, such as 
London or Wales, the possible B name has nothing to do with the area.  
The B name can be that of a river, of a road, or the border piece can be 
immaterial or chosen not to be represent the physical way.
If the border line is immaterial, the name, if any, can be chosen 
perfectly arbitrarily and serves only to identify the border line at 
best when you look at configuration data or on the map.

It seems that the best identification is the pair of names of the 
smallest area on each side: municipality1 — municipality2.  A hint of 
that appears clearly when you watch or make a 3-border point and notice 
that the border names are M1-M2, M2-M3 and M3-M1, anything else is an error.
Some persons say that this naming must follow the same rule (below) as 
admin-level : "highest level wins". The question is then: how many 
municipality boundary pieces must be named Europe — Asia and is that 
name a good identification?
However, knowing that the boundary piece is of a high level may be 
considered important. In that case, M1 - M2 (Europe — Asia) is an option 
too.  (...) is optional.

Q1: which naming of border line piece do you consider valid and which do 
you prefer?
Q1a: Municipality1 — Municipality2?
Q1b: Highest-level1 — Highest-level2 (Europe — Asia)
Q1c: Municipality1 — Municipality2 (Highest-level1 — Highest-level2) ?
Q1d: nothing
Q1e: you're inventive...

2) The admin_level itself is redundant in ways. It is in fact contained 
in the boundary relations, and as it possibly has multiple values if the 
border is for several area levels.  Hence, that number not only seems 
unnecessary but also meaningless.  I wonder how long that "FIXME level 
must not be 4" has been on the English border (and why it doesn't say 
what it should be, instead).

Q2: do you see any use for that apparently useless number? Could it be 
omitted?

3) One can make routes of routes, that is, relations of relations.
Or, at least, routes of hiking routes.  It seems that the recursion 
support  is an application matter.
And we're ruled by chickens and eggs.
Hiking software has implemented recursion, then hiking routes, then more 
software.
How extended is the recursion support of routes?
Could it be used for boundaries?

In the example below, the long series of many Liège - Verviers pieces 
could be a single route made of M1-M2, M2-M3, M3-M4 ... municipality 
pieces and itself be called Liège - Verviers, which in turn would 
participate in the now 4 parts of boundary Liège, all that like матрёшки.
And the border Europe - Asia would be made of a reasonable number of 
countries C1-C2, C2-C3, C3-C4, ... instead of an incalculable number of 
municipalities.

Q3a: can boundary recursion be made?
Q3b: else, would you like it to be done?
Q3c: do you prefer eggs or chicken?

Best regards,

André.


Real examples:

Q1a:  a border around a municipality.  All pieces identified by 
municipalities.

Way Sprimont — Theux (181023491) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491>
Way Sprimont — Pepinster (180849347) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347>
Way Sprimont — Trooz (180867020) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180867020>
Way Chaudfontaine — Sprimont (182800464) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182800464>
Way Sprimont — Esneux (180863558) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863558>
Way Sprimont — Comblain-au-Pont (180863555) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863555>
Way Sprimont — Aywaille (180863549) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863549>


Q1b: same when 2 pieces belong to higher level border Liège-Verviers.
2 pieces clearly identified only by number.

Way Liège — Verviers (181023491) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491>
Way Liège — Verviers (180849347) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347>
Way Sprimont — Trooz (180867020) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180867020>
Way Chaudfontaine — Sprimont (182800464) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182800464>
Way Sprimont — Esneux (180863558) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863558>
Way Sprimont — Comblain-au-Pont (180863555) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863555>
Way Sprimont — Aywaille (180863549) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863549>


The higher level boundary for Liège sharing 2 pieces with the above.
The only clearly identifiable piece, Saint-Georges-sur-Meuse — Flémalle, 
is a mistake.

Way Région wallonne — Flandre (182607521) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182607521>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (98128097) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98128097>
Way Pays-Bas — Belgique (49802172) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/49802172>
Way Pays-Bas — Belgique (43301253) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/43301253>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (49799253) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/49799253>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (180023024) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180023024>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (159090121) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/159090121>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (178851024) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178851024>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (178939669) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178939669>
Way Région wallonne — Flandre (98128156) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98128156>
Way Liège — Waremme (177576198) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177576198>
Way Liège — Waremme (177576195) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177576195>
Way Liège — Waremme (178170434) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/178170434>
Way Liège — Waremme (177387110) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177387110>
Way Liège — Waremme (176217505) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/176217505>
Way Saint-Georges-sur-Meuse — Flémalle (177706421) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177706421>
Way Liège — Huy (177706422) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/177706422>
Way Liège — Huy (183519658) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183519658>
Way Liège — Huy (183519659) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183519659>
Way Liège — Huy (183512829) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183512829>
Way Liège — Huy (181209035) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181209035>
Way Liège — Huy (183083917) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183083917>
Way Liège — Huy (183306446) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183306446>
Way Liège — Huy (183083915) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/183083915>
Way Liège — Huy (181334315) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181334315>
Way Liège — Verviers (181325568) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181325568>
Way Liège — Verviers (181023490) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023490>
Way Liège — Verviers (181023491) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491>
Way Liège — Verviers (180849347) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347>
Way Liège — Verviers (181024761) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181024761>
Way Liège — Verviers (181028658) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181028658>
Way Liège — Verviers (181028757) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181028757>
Way Liège — Verviers (181029539) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181029539>
Way Liège — Verviers (181032538) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181032538>
Way Liège — Verviers (181032537) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181032537>
Way Liège — Verviers (182602419) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182602419>
Way Liège — Verviers (179676526) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/179676526>


Q1c: same municipality, showing both information.

Way Sprimont — Theux ( 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491>Liège — Verviers) 
(181023491) <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/181023491>
Way Sprimont — Pepinster ( 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347>Liège — Verviers) 
(180849347) <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180849347>
Way Sprimont — Trooz (180867020) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180867020>
Way Chaudfontaine — Sprimont (182800464) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/182800464>
Way Sprimont — Esneux (180863558) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863558>
Way Sprimont — Comblain-au-Pont (180863555) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863555>
Way Sprimont — Aywaille (180863549) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/180863549>


Q1d: part of the English border:

Way 28421630 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421630>
Way 28421629 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421629>
Way 28421627 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421627>
Way 132078258 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/132078258>
Way France — Royaume-Uni (132078261) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/132078261>
Way 28421878 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421878>
Way 28421876 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421876>
Way 160784084 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160784084>
Way 28421874 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421874>
Way 160784081 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160784081>
Way 28421873 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421873>
Way 28421872 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421872>
Way 28421871 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421871>
Way 28421868 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421868>
Way 28421864 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421864>
Way 28421861 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421861>
Way 28421857 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421857>
Way 28421855 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421855>
Way 28421853 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421853>
Way 28421852 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28421852>
Way 160696657 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160696657>
Way 160696656 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160696656>
Way 160696653 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/160696653>
Way 39498765 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39498765>
Way 46095782 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/46095782>
Way River Wye (27336844) <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27336844>
Way 27336799 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27336799>
Way 165549422 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/165549422>
Way 165549409 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/165549409>
Way River Wye (27336687) <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27336687>
Way 28216462 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28216462>
Way River Wye (28216457) <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28216457>
Way 28216456 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28216456>
Way River Monnow (23706463) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706463>
Way 23706466 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706466>
Way River Monnow (23706487) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706487>
Way River Monnow (10493523) 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/10493523>
Way 23706490 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706490>
Way 23706510 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706510>
Way 23706509 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706509>
Way 23706512 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23706512>
Way 45719801 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45719801>




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