[Tagging] Proposed relation give_way

Philip Barnes phil at trigpoint.me.uk
Sun Mar 17 12:12:54 UTC 2013

On Sat, 2013-03-16 at 21:31 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, March 16, 2013, Philip Barnes wrote:
>         A junction with stop sign will take longer to accomplish as
>         the presence
>         of the stop sign indicates reduced visibility.
> Except in places that tend to overuse stop signs.  The west coast
> states, Idaho, and to a lesser extent other states that allow
> motorcycles and bicycles to roll stop signs (Oklahoma has this rule
> primarily because our state's legislature misguidedly thinks pavement
> traffic sensors are based on weight, not magnetism; the big cities and
> ODOT have largely subverted this by switching to optical sensors since
> the law went into effect), tend to post stop signs where yield signs,
> even all-way yields (such as are common on minor intersections in the
> central plains), would be more appropriate.

I am a little confused as to why sensors would be used in conjunction
with a stop or give way/yield? I On traffic lights they are common,
although haven't seen the rubber tubes to detect weight for probably 30
years. Most are wire sensors in the road, although PIR are used on
narrow bridges so the lights can often change as you approach them.

I think that a 4 way stop/yield should tagged as such, as it deserves
its own routing time calculation. It is a very different thing than a
give way or stop where you are joining or crossing a major road. 

In my experience of driving in Canada, 4 way stops are used in places
where a mini-roundabout would more appropriate.

(As a 13 year old brit, visiting Canada for the first time, I can
remember asking my uncle what yield meant. Its not something that is
used in UK English in that way).

>         Absolutely wrong, obeying traffic rules is 100% the drivers
>         responsibility. There already enough numpties on the road,
>         without
>         giving them another reason to blame the satnav.
>         A satnav should only use the presence of give ways and stops
>         to
>         calculate routing times and hence the optimum route.
> I have a strong feeling, based on existing usage, that warnings for
> stops and give ways will be generated by the folks with the knowledge
> to do so, with understanding that doing so is not fool proof.  This
> information in a satnav is still handy for the sake of knowing whether
> or not OSM is aware of these objects while surveying.
I was not saying stop and give ways should not be mapped, just that
satnavs should not use that information to guide the driver on the craft
of driving, or the 'rule of the road'.

However there are many things that a mapper must dig deeper that mapnik
in order to check. Checking turn restrictions for instance.

Phil (trigpoint)

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