[Tagging] opening-hours off closed

nounours kuessemondtaeglich at gmail.com
Thu Nov 28 15:32:34 UTC 2013

Dear André,

Also being new to OSM and new to the tagging mailing list, I completely understand your frustration. And I also believe that a lot of people left OSM because even if they try hard, the don't get it right.

On the other hand, I also understand the people being involved for a long time in OSM, to explain over and over again the same things ...

But I think, in all documentations on the wiki, there is a lot of "clean-up" needed, to make clear to newcomers what's valid and what's not. And also I think contributors would benefit from a badge indicating the state, like "I'm new and willing to learn. If I do something wrong, it's not on purpose", in opposition to a badge "I'm an old OSM guy and grounchy, and if I do something, I do it on purpuse to make life harder for others".

In a conlcusion, I only can ask you to stay and help to transform OSM in the way your suggesting. 

Concerning opening_hours: I'm very much happy that finally someone (André) tries to simply this tag. I personally think the original definition is a nightmare, and even Andrés "simplified" syntax looks very, very complicated to a normal mapper.

Well, I really hope the person that added the "don't use it"-flag will remove it and help to improve André diagramm!

Thanks, nounours

(badge: greenhorn, but willing to learn)

Am 28.11.2013 um 16:15 schrieb André Pirard:

> Hi,
> I had to tag the simplest thing there is: a parking lot closed a few hours on Fridays (during market time).
> On wiki.osm.org/wiki/Opening_hours, I found explanations by, rather than a simple diagram, a lot of examples and explanations sometimes nearing slang like "off" rather than the internationally understood "closed".
> After spending much time reading them several times, I didn't find how to code that ubiquitous case.
> I queried this list and I received something like six different and alternating answers.
> Someone even said that "off", crowding the page, is not to be used.
> So, I thought that this fuzzy matter had to be be solved by writing a simple syntax diagram. Should anything be wrong in it, someone would put it right and it would be a good job jobbed and a big step forward.
> Instead of that, someone added to footnote 1 the very clear sentence "no program works like that", looking like a discussion message.  I posted here that it would be better to state (and fix) how the diagram must be rather than how it must not (I also receive repeated updates notices from the discussion page in which someone put a vote).
> And now, probably in thanks for my contribution, my diagram was adorned with this:
> <40px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png>
> The syntax diagram below had no proper discussion and vote, and conflicts with established tagging. Don't use it!
> It is obviously something very difficult to understand that a diagram translating an article needs no discussion nor vote but needs to be corrected to align with the obscure explanations by their gurus.  Else, it's the article itself that suffers from lack of discussion and vote. That remark still doesn't say what's wrong in the diagram.
> In practical conclusion, two months after stating the problem I still don't see how to do.  I know that the diagram is wrong but not what in it and there is still no example in the page explaining how to tag that ubiquitous case.
> So, I followed my best option: remove my tagging, unsubscribe and forget it all about opening-hours.
> That's probably what a many mappers have done silently, unless it's true that they tag in every which way.
> Help OSM, they say.
> All the best for the rest
> André.
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