[Tagging] opening-hours off closed

Jonathan bigfatfrog67 at gmail.com
Thu Nov 28 15:37:35 UTC 2013



On 28/11/2013 15:32, nounours wrote:
> Dear André,
> Also being new to OSM and new to the tagging mailing list, I 
> completely understand your frustration. And I also believe that a lot 
> of people left OSM because even if they try hard, the don't get it right.
> On the other hand, I also understand the people being involved for a 
> long time in OSM, to explain over and over again the same things ...
> But I think, in all documentations on the wiki, there is a lot of 
> "clean-up" needed, to make clear to newcomers what's valid and what's 
> not. And also I think contributors would benefit from a badge 
> indicating the state, like "I'm new and willing to learn. If I do 
> something wrong, it's not on purpose", in opposition to a badge "I'm 
> an old OSM guy and grounchy, and if I do something, I do it on purpuse 
> to make life harder for others".
> In a conlcusion, I only can ask you to stay and help to transform OSM 
> in the way your suggesting.
> Concerning opening_hours: I'm very much happy that finally someone 
> (André) tries to simply this tag. I personally think the original 
> definition is a nightmare, and even Andrés "simplified" syntax looks 
> very, very complicated to a normal mapper.
> Well, I really hope the person that added the "don't use it"-flag will 
> remove it and help to improve André diagramm!
> Thanks, nounours
> (badge: greenhorn, but willing to learn)
> Am 28.11.2013 um 16:15 schrieb André Pirard:
>> Hi,
>> I had to tag the simplest thing there is: a parking lot closed a few 
>> hours on Fridays (during market time).
>> On wiki.osm.org/wiki/Opening_hours 
>> <http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Opening_hours>, I found explanations by, 
>> rather than a simple diagram, a lot of examples and explanations 
>> sometimes nearing slang like "off" rather than the internationally 
>> understood "closed".
>> After spending much time reading them several times, I didn't find 
>> how to code that ubiquitous case.
>> I queried this list and I received something like six different and 
>> alternating answers.
>> Someone even said that "off", crowding the page, is not to be used.
>> So, I thought that this fuzzy matter had to be be solved by writing a 
>> simple syntax diagram. Should anything be wrong in it, someone would 
>> put it right and it would be a good job jobbed and a big step forward.
>> Instead of that, someone added to footnote 1 the very clear sentence 
>> "no program works like that", looking like a discussion message.  I 
>> posted here that it would be better to state (and fix) how the 
>> diagram must be rather than how it must not (I also receive repeated 
>> updates notices from the discussion page in which someone put a vote).
>> And now, probably in thanks for my contribution, my diagram was 
>> adorned with this:
>> <40px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png> 
>> <http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/File:Ambox_warning_pn.svg>
>> 	The syntax diagram below had no proper discussion and vote, and 
>> conflicts with established tagging. *Don't use it!*
>> It is obviously something very difficult to understand that a diagram 
>> translating an article needs no discussion nor vote but needs to be 
>> corrected to align with the obscure explanations by their gurus.  
>> Else, it's the article itself that suffers from lack of discussion 
>> and vote. That remark still doesn't say what's wrong in the diagram.
>> In practical conclusion, two months after stating the problem I still 
>> don't see how to do.  I know that the diagram is wrong but not what 
>> in it and there is still no example in the page explaining how to tag 
>> that ubiquitous case.
>> So, I followed my best option: remove my tagging, unsubscribe and 
>> forget it all about opening-hours.
>> That's probably what a many mappers have done silently, unless it's 
>> true that they tag in every which way.
>> Help OSM, they say.
>> All the best for the rest
>> André.
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