[Tagging] How to tag an imaginary oneway barrier

André Pirard A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com
Sun Feb 2 13:44:51 UTC 2014


On 2014-02-02 08:56, Colin Smale wrote :
>
> On 2014-02-02 02:15, André Pirard wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-01 17:39, Colin Smale wrote :
>>>
>>> On 2014-02-01 17:30, Masi Master wrote:
>>>
>>>     Normally traffic signs belongs to the road to the next  intersection/crossing.
>>>
>>> That depends on the country - different jurisdictions have different
>>> conventions. In the UK the sign's effect is often "until further
>>> notice", i.e. until there is another sign telling you differently.
>>> It doesn't automatically get nullified at the first side road like
>>> it does in many countries.
>>>
>> Strange to me again because the reason why the signs *have to* be
>> repeated is that drivers entering the road at that "next crossing"
>> wouldn't know them otherwise.  How do the UK drivers know?
>>
> They have to use their memory. ...
>

Mm. It looks like a drawing is needed...

x


Supposing that, unlike on the drawing, the right sign was a 80 km/h
limit, repeating the left one as we say.
What "memory" could a driver coming from the bottom road and turning
right use to know that he is entering a 80 km/h speed limit if the right
sign wasn't there?
Because of this, signals *must always* be repeated after each
intersections. The only exception is zone signs which, by definition,
cover a whole area and that must be placed at all entries/exits of that
area.
That is the meaning of the drawing, actually.  The 80 km/h limit is
canceled at the intersection but the 50 km/h one induced by the urban
zone sign remains.
>
> ... The legal basis is also often different. There is often (it
> depends on the sign/restriction) a "Traffic Order" which says
> something like "the road from A to B is now 30mph maximum speed" and
> prima facie you are committing an offence if you disobey the order
> whether there are signs or not. However you can defend yourself in
> court by saying the signs were absent, hidden, confusing etc. So the
> highway authority has to be reasonable about putting up signs, and it
> is your problem if you miss one. In NL at least the offence is created
> by the sign itself, so no sign = no offence.
>
It's my deepest opinion that it's not my fault ("my problem") if I miss
a zone sign because it's at the other side of a lorry I'm overtaking and
that the Road Administration are to blame for not putting such important
signs on both sides. There are even self-adhesive tapes to be wrapped
around poles to remind a zone and they are not used.

OKing for off-topic, that Administration are often out of their mind.
I know many places where the parking restriction alongside a road is
made of a series of signs with an up pointing arrow. That arrow means
"beginning of the restriction".  Consequently, wherever he is, a driver
sees the beginning of the restriction ahead of him and the signs mean
that parking is allowed everywhere except in front of the last sign with
a down arrow.  They didn't grasp the meaning of the double pointed arrow.
>
> By the way, diving off-topic for a second, their memory is not tested
> as much as drivers on Dutch motorways. You may have to have a stack of
> up to 5 speed limits at any one time. Imagine encountering the
> following signs, in order:
>
> 1) start of motorway - class of road says it is 130
>
> 2) static sign says it is 120
>
> 3) static sign also says it is 100 between 0700 and 1900
>
> 4) temporary static sign says it is 90 (e.g. for roadworks)
>
> 5) overhead displays say temporary speed limit is 70 (e.g. for
> congestion ahead)
>
> 6) in the course of the traffic jam you see a temporary static sign at
> the end of the road works which says "end of 90 limit" (black circle,
> diagonal bar, grey 90 visible)
>
> 7) overhead displays say "end of restriction" (circle with diagonal bar)
>
> What is the speed limit after sign 6 (the time is 1859)? And after
> sign 7? And why is everybody suddenly overtaking you?
>
> There is a catch at point 7) - end of restriction on overhead displays
> now only cancel limits from overhead displays. So is the limit after
> sign 6) 100, or 130?
>
I would call that bait signaling.
The signs I'm used to see are far more gentle (and the puzzles are in my
smartphone).
It's exactly the point of the above drawing that, although it's not
necessary, the right sign very kindly reminds (herhaling) that the 50
km/h zone limit applies again.

Remember that OSM traffic

Cheers,

André.




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