[Tagging] healthcare: attribute or stand alone tag? (was Re: Feature Proposal - RFC - Blood donation 2)

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Tue Jun 30 00:55:39 UTC 2015

On 30/06/2015 8:52 AM, Ruben Maes wrote:
> Op maandag 29 juni 2015 heeft André Pirard <A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com 
> <mailto:A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven:
> > On 2015-06-29 18:55, Holger Jeromin wrote :
> >> André Pirard wrote on 29.06.2015 17:08:
> >>> Ruben Maes <ruben.maes96 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:ruben.maes96 at gmail.com>> Wrote in message:
> >>>> After the proposal Donation was rejected, I tried to address the
> >>>> issues that were raised in a new proposal using
> >>>> healthcare=blood_donation:
> >>>> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Blood_donation_2
> >>>> You are of course welcome to point out any flaws.
> >>> Like I said, could you please in your proposal *stress* that 
> healthcare
> >>> is not an object but an attribute of an object.
> >>> There is no such thing as "a healthcare" on a map but a building 
> can be
> >>> used for healthcare.
> >>> Then, healthcare is an attribute of that building.
> >>> Out of curiosity, I've had a look at Key:healthcare
> >>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare> and it's exactly
> >>> what it says:
> >>>> ... add *healthcare*=* to to an area that has building
> >> Is this (5 years later) really still true? I am quite happy with my
> >> (indoor tagging) node:
> >>
> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1227761407#map=19/50.77699/6.04469
> > What is "this"?
> > My remark concerns mainly areas (buildings).
> > But it's also interesting to know what a node represents (what
> > healthcare is an attribute of).
> >> Is a restaurant or hotel also a attribute to an object?
> > Of course it is.
> > They are the attributes that make a building (usually) suitable for
> > catering and accommodation.
> >
> >>> You should give an example of for example a school where 
> blood_donation
> >>> takes place:
> >>>
> >>> building=school
> >>> or
> >>> building=yes
> >>> school=yes
> >> Eeks, not a good example tag :)
> > If you think so, you should say why and what you propose.
> > Not just the usual "no".
I'll add my 'no'?
building=school  would be my preference over building=yes, school=yes!
> > I think that such a page should teach the reader how to tag healthcare
> > taking place in a school.
healthcare also takes place in other things..

And the page ONLY refers to blood_donation .. not ALL of health care ..
If required .. instructions on how to tag health care should be on the 
main health care page ..
and that page says "Create a node in the center of the building or 
property and tag it with *healthcare*=* or add *healthcare*=* to to an 
area that has building 

So use of healthcare on a node is present. I don't think the wording is 
of how to place the node is correct, I'd rather say "Create a node in 
the center of the heathcare feature and tag it with *healthcare*=*" etc.

> I have yet to see a permanent blood donation centre at a school, but I 
> would just place a node with the healthcare tags in the school area 
> and call it a day.

As had been address in the past. This proposal is for fixed permanent 
features IIRC? That does need to made clear in the proposal.  And (I 
hope) on the eventual approved wiki page.

> Adding everything on the school boundary seems very odd to me, I have 
> never seen that done. For renderers, I think it must be a nightmare. I 
> know we're not supposed to tag for the renderer but any data consumer 
> would have trouble interpreting dual-tagged objects.

The advantage of the node is that the location of that feature can be 
identified within the larger area. It adds more detail to the map, more 
usefull information for the map user.

> So to me, healthcare=blood_donation is pretty stand-alone (just like 
> shop=*) and not an attribute of a school, a shop or even a hospital 
> for that matter. I'd use it on a node without any other tags, but on a 
> way of course with building=yes or whatever tags are relevant. (Also 
> see the examples on the proposal page – do you agree with them or 
> would you tag them differently?)
> I could add a piece about making sure to use a building tag to the 
> page, but IMO then we'd have to do that on the wiki pages for all 
> shops, most amenities, etc...
> Actually that might not be a bad idea? We could write a template and 
> include it on those pages. I've seen people using JOSM not including 
> building tags quite a few times.

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