[Tagging] Proposed: landuse=civic_admin - looking for comments.

Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist at gmail.com
Thu Mar 5 14:57:44 UTC 2015

2015-03-05 14:35 GMT+01:00 John Willis <johnw at mac.com>:

> > On Mar 5, 2015, at 9:03 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have some questions:
> > according to the proposal,
> >
> > "This is for complexes who's primary purpose is the citizens interaction
> with government agents "
> > What do you propose for government offices which are not or rarely
> accessible by citizens?
> If the offices are in support of those functions, such as the office
> buildings used by legislators away from the main hall ( the U.S. Congress
> has offices for support staff away from the Capitol building) then I think
> that is acceptable. What I don't want to see is this being used on
> maintenance facilities and train yards.

what about the pentagon or the NSA headquarters? I would likely include
them in "civic_admin" and surely in some sort of "governmental" landuse,
but I don't think these are places where the primary purpose is the
citizen's interaction with government agents.

> >
> > What about courthouses? I think it would be helpful, to define also the
> term "government", because you explicitly include legislative bodies, what
> would be seen very strange e.g. in Germany (where the term "government" is
> restricted to the executive bodies).
> That's an interesting distinction - the exceutive and legislative branches
> create the law (somewhat jointly) and the judicial branch oversees its
> fairness, or as a place, acts as a judicial center for punishment
> sentencing or dispute settlement.
City hall, the mayor and  the council feel more connected than the superior
> court judge and city attorney do - usually they have offices separate from
> city hall, whereas the legislative and executive bodies are somewhat
> intertwined.

I did not read the whole article, but from the beginning it seems that the
separation of powers is established in the US, at least in the constitution
(recent news made it sometimes uncertain if the US government was
respecting the country's constitution in all situations, sometimes they
might have felt too threatened by the most dangerous terrorists to be able
to do so):

> You suggested (I think, in another thread) that you would like to see
> Judicial get special treatment, and I would like to propose
> landuse=judicial at a later time. Courthouses and city halls are quite
> different to me.

I'm not sure, but I think I'd either have one landuse for all those public
institutions, or one for each power (government, legislative, judicial),
mixing legislative and executive under "civic_admin" seems strange.

> >
> > I also dislike the idea to encourage people tagging stuff as
> "building=industrial", I think we should encourage them to be more
> explicit, e.g. building=production_hall, or building=warehouse, etc. (the
> same goes for building=retail, commercial)
> Sounds great to me. But when arial mapping, I know 100% that this is a car
> manufacturing plant ( like Ota Subaru factory, or Niisato Mitsuba car parts
> factory) but I know 0% about the individual buildings.

agreed, but you won't gain much from adding building=industrial compared to
building=yes inside a man_made=works, landuse=industrial area. For good
mapping it is practically always necessary to visit the place and do a
survey / know the place.

> Detailed tags through more building definitions, a subtag, such as
> industrial=warehouse or building:industrial=warehouse are totally fine with
> me if people have the knowledge.  I'm trying to explain the relationship I
> see between landuse= and building=, and better building definitions would
> only strengthen that connection (generic - specific).

I wanted to point out, that just because an area is industrial, it doesn't
mean there can't be offices, toilets, residences, shops etc. inside, and
they won't be all building=industrial just because they belong to some
works for instance.

> We have the common phrase heavy industry in inglish, and the Japanse must
> too, as Mitsubishi Heavy industry is their name, but I have no idea what
> then is light industry - maybe the metal stamping plant in a small building
> the size of a house in a residential neighborhood is light industry - and
> japan is overrun with them ( there is one 100m from my house surrounded on
> all 4 sides by houses) - whereas that is super illegal in most US cities
> (you have to move to commercial or industrial park for that).

yes, with light industry I intended everything that doesn't impose
disturbance/nuisance to the surrounding, e.g. small places like the
workshop of a carpenter, a cabinetmaker, a metal workshop that is not too
big etc., while heavy industry would be e.g. producing steel or mining.

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