[Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 97, Issue 29

Alejandro Moreno almorca at gmail.com
Tue Oct 10 15:58:50 UTC 2017


> Hi,
>
> In Spain it is common to find litter bins that have attached a dog
> excrement bags dispenser. In Talk-es discussed how to map these bins [
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-es/2016-July/014171.html]
> and we did not reach a conclusion.
>
> There are 2 opinions:
> - 1 node with tags
> amenity = waste_basket
> vending = excrement_bags
> fee = no
>
> - 2 nodes
>> amenity = vending_machine
> vending = excrement_bags
> payment: none = yes
>
> 2º node (a few centimeters from the previous one):
>
> amenity = waste_basket
>
> What would be the most correct option?
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 09:56:54 -0400
> From: Bryan Housel <bryan at 7thposition.com>
> To: osm-tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map a bin with dog excrement bags
>         dispenser
> Message-ID: <C01A73CE-DA08-4AF3-8AA4-CE9BFD98A03F at 7thposition.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> 2 nodes, please!
> It makes things much easier for iD, or any other data consumer that needs
to match features to tag presets.
> related thread on iD:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4191#issuecomment-318943309 <
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/4191#issuecomment-318943309>
>
> Thanks! Bryan
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Alejandro Moreno <almorca at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > In Spain it is common to find litter bins that have attached a dog
excrement bags dispenser. In Talk-es discussed how to map these bins [
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-es/2016-July/014171.html <
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-es/2016-July/014171.html>]
and we did not reach a conclusion.
> >
> > There are 2 opinions:
> > - 1 node with tags
> > amenity = waste_basket
> > vending = excrement_bags
> > fee = no
> >
> > - 2 nodes
> > 1º
> > amenity = vending_machine
> > vending = excrement_bags
> > payment: none = yes
> >
> > 2º node (a few centimeters from the previous one):
> >
> > amenity = waste_basket
> >
> > What would be the most correct option?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tagging mailing list
> > Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:18:19 +0200
> From: Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Fwd: How to map a bin with dog excrement bags
>         dispenser
> Message-ID:
>         <
CABPTjTCLGuw0ZX-SD_ocx7sTfLtWcMmdgMHsAQxkYF+7KuDpcg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> 2017-10-10 15:42 GMT+02:00 Alejandro Moreno <almorca at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > In Spain it is common to find litter bins that have attached a dog
> > excrement bags dispenser. In Talk-es discussed how to map these bins [
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-es/2016-July/014171.html]
> > and we did not reach a conclusion.
> >
> > There are 2 opinions:
> > - 1 node with tags
> > amenity = waste_basket
> > vending = excrement_bags
> > fee = no
> >
> > - 2 nodes
> > 1º
> > amenity = vending_machine
> > vending = excrement_bags
> > payment: none = yes
> >
> > 2º node (a few centimeters from the previous one):
> >
> > amenity = waste_basket
> >
> > What would be the most correct option?
> >
>
>
>
> As you ask for a "most" correct option, and as you write it is a
dispenser,
> "vending" doesn't seem the right term for this (nor does "machine").
> Although it is documented, payment:none doesn't make sense any way in
> combination with "vending".
>
> This aside, I'd use 2 nodes (objects) and not combine several things into
> one object, even if it is all attached to one pole.
> You might consider using the node relation:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Node but to be
> honest, I don't think it is evaluated by someone at this time.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:40:41 +0000
> From: marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com>
> To: "tagging at openstreetmap.org" <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Fwd: How to map a bin with dog excrement bags
>         dispenser
> Message-ID:
>         <
VI1P190MB03849F2D7982D3B28598A4C6B7750 at VI1P190MB0384.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello,
>
> Le 10. 10. 17 à 15:42, Alejandro Moreno a écrit :
> > In Spain it is common to find litter bins that have attached a dog
> > excrement bags dispenser.
> it look like you have 3 questions in one :)
>
> one easy :
> fee=no <> payment:none=yes
> payment:*=* is useful when you need to add several
> payment but when it is free, you 'll never have
> another payment:* tag.
> so imho free=yes is better
>
> the main question :
> it is a waste_basket or vending_machine ?
> the main function is related to bags.
> the bin is useful only after you get a bag.
> if you don't have a bag, you can not use the dedicated bin.
> therefore the few that I have taged have :
> amenity = vending_machine
> vending = excrement_bags
> bin=yes


>
> one node <> 2 nodes :
> for me, one node is enough/better because the bin is related
> to the vending_machine like a coffee machine with a bin
> where you put coffee cup after use.
> But if you still use 2 nodes, it is no need to move one away.
> it like tagging for rendering and except for a very high zoom,
> the rendering will in any case display only one.
> This brings us back to the previous question: if rendering display only
> one, which one ? if I see a vending machine on the map, I can expect to
> have a trash nearby. by displaying a trash, I have no idea if a vending
> machine exist nearby.
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 17:03:39 +0200
> From: Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Fwd: How to map a bin with dog excrement bags
>         dispenser
> Message-ID:
>         <CABPTjTDCewALkBs_CbgdSr=
Dp3x3g7HPxvejToNeVQUtEmhCcg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> 2017-10-10 16:40 GMT+02:00 marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com>:
>
> > the main question :
> > it is a waste_basket or vending_machine ?
> > the main function is related to bags.
> > the bin is useful only after you get a bag.
> > if you don't have a bag, you can not use the dedicated bin.
> > therefore the few that I have taged have :
> > amenity = vending_machine
> > vending = excrement_bags
> > bin=yes
>
>
>
> in case it is a dedicated bin you are right. Around here, these are all
> usual bins and you can throw "anything" into them, not just poo. Nowadays
> (and where I can tell), people walking their dog usually have a bag with
> them, so even if the bin would be dedicated to dog poo, they still could
> use it. On the other hand, AFAIK you can throw your dog's poo also in any
> other non-dedicated bin.
> If we look how many people are possibly looking for dog poo bag dispensers
> (all dog owners), these are significantly fewer than those potentially
> looking for a bin (everybody). But if you imagine how many people will use
> a map (cellphone, app, etc.) to look for a bin, and how many for a poo bag
> dispenser, it seems more likely that the latter case happens (unless you
> are in a low waste bin density area). Some mappers will prefer focussing
on
> mapping generic infrastructure, other will prefer mapping things
> specifically for animal owners, and both have good arguments on their
side.
>
> I don't think the "main function" discourse will bring us any further, we
> have had this in the past (and it brought us "path" ;-) ), and we've moved
> away from it for a reason. The "main function" depends on you and on your
> life.
>
> No need to add to tag fragmentation by creating new properties for
> indirectly mapping things, better use dedicated objects for things and map
> them explicitly, this removes ambiguity and makes it easier to amend them
> with more detail later.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin


The main function is as bin and you can throw "anything" into them. You can
see examples in [
http://www.forjasestilo.es/images/easyblog_images/52/DSC05581.jpg ] and [
https://www.ajuntamentimpulsa.cat/FitxersWeb/11187/OMNIUM%20papelera.jpg ].

Cheers,
Alex
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