[Tagging] Golf tag combinations

Paul Allen pla16021 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 2 12:09:48 UTC 2018

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Chris Hill <osm at raggedred.net> wrote:

> I think people use the ref tag because that makes sense.
In some situations, where name=* is already used for one thing but a
reference number is also needed, it makes
sense.  In other situations t doesn't make sense (to me) to use ref, which
isn't rendered, rather than name.

> I'm not a golfer but on allotments the whole site usually has a name and
> the individual plots have a number (ref=*).
Yes, that's how it was defined.  Which makes no sense.  Because what use is
it not displaying allotment numbers?

As it happens, plots aren't rendered at all in OSM Carto, but I believe
it's on the to-do list.  When (if) that happens then
the plot boundaries will be rendered but the plot number will not (if you
do what the wiki says and identify them with

The guy who wrote the proposal for allotment plots gave an example in his
proposal.  Of the entire allotment NONE
of them had refs, but one of them had a name.  So it didn't make sense,
even to him.

> The OSM Standard map can't show everything. We used to have a map like
> that as a sort of 'debug' map for mappers; it was useful but horrible to
> look at as everything was jammed in and not one to share more widely.
Please don't use that argument for allotments and golf courses, because it
doesn't apply to them.  Sure, in some
situations not everything fits.  I've mapped shops along a high street and
not all of their names display because there
is no room (vector mapping may allow higher zooms one day, and then they
will display).  But that's not the case with
allotments or golf courses.  There's plenty of room for plot numbers/hole
numbers to be displayed without looking
cluttered because they are widely-spaced and there are no other details

An argument I might accept is that the steps transforming data to rendering
are horribly complex and highly
inefficient and we don't have the compute power to handle allotments and
golf courses on top of everything else.  But
please don't trot out the "clutter" argument where it doesn't apply.

> Abusing the name tag is a common beginner's mistake, let's not encourage
> even more use of the name tag - rather make or find a render that shows
> what you want for a particular purpose.
Please explain WHY it's an abuse to use the name tag for golf holes or
allotment plots.  Name is to be used for names
and not descriptions, but "hole 7" and "plot 15" can be viewed as both
names and descriptions.  As in "I saw him 5 minutes
ago teeing off at hole 7."  In fact, you'd never say "I saw him 5 minutes
ago teeing off at a hole that looks sort of sevenish."
The number of a hole or plot is a name as much as a description, if not
more so.

What might be more sensible is for the carto to render a ref if there is no
name=* in the same way that house names
get rendered if there is no addr:number (which applies to about half the
houses where I live).  But I'd still like to know
why golf greens and allotment plots specified ref instead of name.

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