[Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

Eugene Podshivalov yaugenka at gmail.com
Wed Dec 5 20:45:41 UTC 2018


It looks like I've directed you a bit off the initial topic to the
definition of proper name.
Let us look at it from the other side. Assume we all agree that "École
primaire des Quatre Fils" is the proper name.
Is there some common approach for denoting locally recognized categories
which differ from commonly approved tags?
E.g. how to denote the " École primaire" category?

ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 23:10, Imre Samu <pella.samu at gmail.com>:

> > If I live next to a place called 'Hudson Bay' then I put name='Hudson
> Bay' even if some may argue it may not be a Bay.
>
> We can link most of the objects to the Wikidata
> https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=1282777       ->
> wikidata=Q3040  ->  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3040 ->   *instance of
> ["inland sea" ;  "bay" ]*
>
> So if somebody don't like the osm categories ( for query ),   it is
> possible to use the Wikidata categories
>
> Eiffel tower :   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q243
> instance of
> -  lattice tower
> -  observation tower
> -  landmark
> -  tourist destination
>
> So with linked data (wikidata, lau numbers )  - we can extend the power of
> the OSM
> One of the example:  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox  ( some
> query is not working yet )
>
> Imre
>
>
> Topographe Fou <letopographefou at gmail.com> ezt írta (időpont: 2018. dec.
> 5., Sze, 20:07):
>
>> I don't see as many issues in your exemple... If École or Musée is part
>> of the name, I don't see why we shall invent a truncated name. It's not
>> because the type is part of the name that we shall remove it.
>>
>> Let's take a more famous example: 'Arc de Triomphe' is the name of a
>> landmark in Paris but it is also an 'Arc' (Arch in English). Same for 'Tour
>> Eiffel' (which is a Tour, i.e. a Tower, but also an antenna). I don't see
>> any solution in renaming them Eiffel or Triomphe. Instead we use the name
>> for the 'name' and add their types (a Tower, an arch, a landmark, an
>> antenna...) in attributes.
>>
>> And if one needs to list all Lakes in a given country then you have your
>> answer: If it is on a geological basis, then he will look for attributes
>> others than 'name'. If it is on a 'per use' basis, i.e. he wants to know
>> which water area is called lake no matter if it is really one or not, then
>> he will look in the name considering all possible translations. If I live
>> next to a place called 'Hudson Bay' then I put name='Hudson Bay' even if
>> some may argue it may not be a Bay.
>>
>> Consequently I don't see a real issue there.
>>
>> Yours
>>
>> LeTopographeFou
>> *De:* yaugenka at gmail.com
>> *Envoyé:* 5 décembre 2018 7:37 PM
>> *À:* tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> *Répondre à:* tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> *Objet:* Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?
>>
>> Martin,
>>
>>> this is already the case. At least it should be like this, if you see
>>> places where the name tag is abused for descriptions you should fix it. I
>>> admit, it is not always possible to clearly tell which is the correct name,
>>> for some kind of things, not even in the real world.
>>> At least in OSM you can add alternative names, generically or with
>>> specific meaning (loc_name, short_name, etc.)
>>
>> The name tag is abused very often and systematically. Let's take at look
>> at this spot in the centre of Paris
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028
>> You can see category names displayed everywhere there, e.g. musium,
>> hotel, school (in French).
>> As a result when you query OSM database for some category items you have
>> to apply algorithms for clearing category names from the name field to get
>> just proper names.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene
>>
>>
>> ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 20:25, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 16:50 Uhr schrieb Eugene Podshivalov <
>>> yaugenka at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> I invision the following solution here.
>>>>
>>>> * First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> this is already the case. At least it should be like this, if you see
>>> places where the name tag is abused for descriptions you should fix it. I
>>> admit, it is not always possible to clearly tell which is the correct name,
>>> for some kind of things, not even in the real world.
>>> At least in OSM you can add alternative names, generically or with
>>> specific meaning (loc_name, short_name, etc.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> * Secondly, introduce a new tag for the real life language specific
>>>> category name. I know that "name:prefix/postfix" key was originally
>>>> introduced for another purpose but it can be a candidate here as well. Note
>>>> that in some languages the place of category name relative to the proper
>>>> name matters.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree this could make sense, I am doing it for places where you can
>>> eat with this tag and local values:
>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/restaurant%3Atype%3Ait#values
>>>
>>> I would not expect it useful for any kind of things, but there are
>>> fields with cultural specialties where I agree that it would be hard to
>>> agree on detailed categories on a global level, and still it might not make
>>> sense outside of a specific cultural context anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Martin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
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