[Tagging] Spanish "manors"

Paul Allen pla16021 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 4 11:38:17 UTC 2018


On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 11:34 AM, César Martínez Izquierdo <
cesar.izq at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I wonder the best way to tag Spanish historic farmhouses ("masías"
> [1], "caseríos" [2] "cortijos", "pazos", etc), since I find no proper
> value of "historic" for them.
>

I suggest you contact the creator of http://gk.historic.place/ for this is
where most historic
and heritage tags are rendered and decisions about those tags are made.
But here are
my thoughts on it.


> I think that the best way is to tag their current use (e.g.
> building=hotel, or building=civic+tourism=museum, etc) and then use
> the "historic" tag to note they are a historic farmhouse.
>

This is the wrong way to go.  See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building - the very first
paragraph explains that building=* describes the building's form, not its
purpose.  A deconsecrated
church may have been converted into a hotel, which means it is
building=church +
building:use=hotel + tourism=hotel.  Barns are often converted to
accomodation, they are still
building=barn.  Use building=* to describe what it looks like, not what it
is used for.

Also, historic=* is not about what it was last used for, but that it is of
historic interest.  So a building may
have been constructed as a church (and most people looking at it would
think it was a church), it may
have later been converted to a hotel and is now a shopping centre.  The
historical interest is that it was
a church, so historic=church not historic=hotel.  Again, the historic tag
is mainly of use on
http://gk.historic.place/ where it causes special rendering to occur in a
clickable overlay.

I see different options for the proper historic value.
>
> 1- historic=manor
> 2- historic=farmhouse
> 3- historic=masia, historic=cortijo, etc
>
> I wonder if option 1 (manor) is too specific to UK or it can be
> applied also to these kind of building.
>

 If it meets the requirements of historic=manor then use historic=manor.
OSM
uses British English names for tags and values (except where those values
are names
of things or other types of literal text).

OSM wiki states: "The manor tag is intended only for representative
> buildings that are in the same time the administrative center of a
> large agricultural estate. Buildings lacking this economic feature
> should not be tagged.".
>

OSM wiki needs to be fixed.  It is clear, from context, that it should say
"buildings
that WERE" not "buildings that are."  I'd fix it myself, but I'm not sure
what was
intended by the qualifying "in the same time."

Regarding option 2, this would be a new value for historic, and I am
> not sure it will really catch the historic relevance of the building.
> We don't tag it as historic because it was a farmhouse, but because of
> its architecture and historic relevance in administering the lands
> surrounding it.
>

You tag it as historic because it causes special rendering on
gk.historic.place.  Invent a
new value for historic=* without first discussing it with the maintainer of
that site and you
may not get any special rendering.

The 3rd option (using different values for each kind building) looks a
> bit overkilling, since there are many different names (masía,
> alquería, cortijo, caserío, pazo, cigarral, quinta, carmen, etc, etc)
> and this would create too much tag fragmentation.
>

Indeed.  That's why we use British English in tag names.  Otherwise each
tag name and
value would have as many variants as there are languages.

As well as historic=* you may find heritage=* is applicable if the building
is officially listed as
Bien de Interés Cultural
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:Bien_de_Inter%C3%A9s_Cultural> by the
Ministry of Education, Culture and Sport.  See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:heritage#Spain for details of how
to map.

For example, here is the result of going to gk.historic.place, zooming in
to Cardigan, setting the "show more
objects" control to 3, and clicking on the icon for Cardigan Castle.
http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html?zoom=18&lat=52.082&lon=-4.66081&pid=HaHbHcSaHe&detail=3&select=w568794249

-- 
Paul
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