[Tagging] Seasonal, intermittent, and ephemeral water tags

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Sun May 20 02:44:39 UTC 2018


A remote mapper cannot determine if something will have water in it if 
the imagery shows no water.
Nor could they determine if a water way (that has water in it in the 
imagery) is seasonal or intermittent.

If a mapper cannot see it or has no knowledge of it .. don't map it!

I have seen remote mappers tag things as vehicle highways ... when they 
are foot paths and have never seen a vehicle.
Don't map what you cannot see or don't know.

On 20/05/18 12:07, Vao Matua wrote:
> For remote mappers seasonal can be ambiguous, the only thing that is 
> known is that a channel or lake didn't have water when the image was 
> taken.
> In the tropics the notion of summer doesn't make sense, it's a foreign 
> concept.
> intermittent=yes is a fine tag
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com 
> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 19/05/18 13:25, Tod Fitch wrote:
>
>             On May 18, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
>             <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Hi,
>
>             I seek comments and thoughts on
>
>             -------------
>
>             Seasonal:
>
>             The seasonal tag in well established. I don't think there
>             is much confusion with it.
>
>
>             ---------------
>
>             Intermittent:
>
>             The intermittent tag continues to be confused with seasonal.
>
>             Possibly this is because some want to use it to indicate
>             that a follow is both seasonal and intermittent?
>
>
>             -------------
>
>             Ephemeral:
>
>             There is also ephemeral being used with stream=ephemeral.
>             This cannot be used with other water features e.g. lakes.
>
>             I think the tag ephemeral=yes could be used, other ideas
>             for tagging are flow=ephemeral, water=ephemeral ...
>
>
>             -------------------
>
>             Combinations with seasonal?
>
>             Think I have raised this before but not come to any firm
>             conclusion myself.
>
>             I think that tagging
>
>             seasonal=summer
>
>             intermittent= yes
>
>
>             leads to confusion. Is the summer flow intermittent? Or is
>             ther regular summer flow with intermittent flow at other
>             times of year?
>
>             It may be better to tag
>
>             seasonal:intermittent=summer
>
>
>             or
>
>             seasonal=summer
>
>             seasonal:intermittent=winter;autumn;spring
>
>         In the semi-arid areas I’ve lived in there are “waterways”
>         that, if they carry water, only have water in them during the
>         rainy season. But, they may not carry water throughout the
>         rainy season. Or even carry water at all every rainy season.
>         So I can see some merit to indicating the seasonality of
>         intermittent water flow.
>
>         If I recall correctly, there was some discussion a while back
>         about using ephemeral as either a key or as a value to the
>         intermittent key to cover the case where even during a rainy
>         season it would be rare to encounter water and if you did the
>         water was likely to be present for only a few hours. But
>         looking at the wiki and taginfo I don’t see it being used as a
>         value for intermittent. There are only 82 instances of it
>         being used as a key all with the value “yes". And I don’t
>         recall the final “bike shedded” result of the mail list
>         discussion. Apparently it did not take hold. I personally
>         thing “ephemeral” should be a accepted value for the
>         intermittent tag but apparently I am alone in that opinion.
>
>         In any case, your “seasonal:intermittent=summer” tag could
>         also be confusing. Does that mean that the only time you are
>         likely to encounter water is in summer but it is only
>         intermittent then? Or does it mean that there is likely to be
>         water in it during fall, winter and spring but it becomes
>         intermittent in summer? Basically has the same issue as the
>         current tagging you are noting as being confusing.
>
>         In reading the current wiki, I think the tagging should be a
>         logical and operation. If there is a seasonal tag, it
>         indicates the season water may be present. Then if there is a
>         intermittent tag it indicates that even during the season
>         water is present it is intermittent.
>
>     Ok.
>
>     I think I have some 3 reasonable things to move forward with.
>
>     Intermittent clarification:
>
>     Clarify the meaning of intermittent on the OSM wiki! At the moment
>     it says "used to indicate that a body of water does not
>     permanently contain water."
>     That is too easily confused with seasonal! I think it should say
>     "used to indicate that a body of water only has water
>     irregularly." Where should this be 'discussed'?
>
>     Intermittent - add values:
>     Add seasonal values to intermittent e.g. intermittent=summer to
>     indicate that water might be present irregularly, but only during
>     summer. RFC etc?
>
>     Add ephemeral:
>     Add the ephemeral tag with the same extended values as
>     intermittent above. RFC etc ?
>
>
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>
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