[Tagging] roundtrip

Jo winfixit at gmail.com
Mon May 28 08:01:10 UTC 2018


I only saw the discussion in this thread, came to the conclusion I (and
probably many other Dutch and German speakers) had interpreted the meaning
completely wrong.

The tag is indeed meaningless, as it stands. Especially for public
transport, where it really doesn't matter. We're describing itineraries.
For hiking/cycling it's a misnomer. So it would be good to phase it out.

What I'm trying to accomplish, while we're doing that is to not only
replace it with circular_route, to indicate intent, but to also add a tag
that validators can use to perform validation.

Jo

2018-05-28 9:54 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com>:

> Have you seen the discussion on the roundtrip tag [1]?
> It looks as if there are two different roundtrip concepts in use:
> For hiking or cycling routes it means that the route you follow brings you
> back to the starting point with the outwards route and the return route
> (mostly) different.
> in a traffic service round trip is often used to indicate a service "there
> and back"
> "roundtrip=yes|no" is an unfortunate choice of key as it has wo meanings,
> mainly ccording to which side of the Atlantic Ocean you are. but its in use
> about 25k times.
> It might have been better to have something like "loop=yes|no" for hiking
> and cycling routes.
> For bus|underground|tram lines it might have been better to use something
> like "geometry=linear|circular|..." for transportation routes.
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip
>
> On 28 May 2018 at 08:52, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From what I gathered during this discussion, roundtrip is mostly
>> understood and used wrongly by mappers.
>>
>> It's also not something about the route, but rather about a passenger who
>> buys a ticket to come back the same way the same day/weekend and paying the
>> return fare on the same ticket (aller/retour - heen- en terug).
>>
>> So I went and downloaded all objects tagged with roundtrip. The one I
>> changed needed major clean up in its members anyway.
>>
>> So how do we get from a meaningless tag (roundtrip) to something that
>> actually has meaning for itineraries?
>>
>> I think that on the one hand we need a tag to describe what the user can
>> expect (get back to approximate initial position) and on the other hand it
>> would be nice (for validation purposes) to know if the ways in the relation
>> are supposed to form a closed loop.
>>
>> hence:
>> circular_route=yes
>> closed_loop=no
>>
>> for that particular bus route.
>>
>> Polyglot
>>
>> 2018-05-28 7:47 GMT+02:00 <osm.tagging at thorsten.engler.id.au>:
>>
>>> The real question, which as far as I can tell you haven’t answered, is:
>>> Does that same vehicle, after completing its route, start at the beginning
>>> of the same route again?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Based on your description, the route as mapped is A1->B->C->D->E->A2.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can I get on at E, stay on the vehicle, and get off at B? (In which case
>>> I would expect that after finishing at A2, the vehicle goes to A1, and you
>>> can remain on board during that time. A2 may be (but doesn’t have to) an
>>> “exit only” and A1 and “entry only” stop).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If yes, then it is roundtrip=yes. And you shouldn’t just remove an
>>> existing tag that actually applies.
>>>
>>> If no, then the roundtrip=yes is wrong and should be removed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jo <winfixit at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, 28 May 2018 15:13
>>> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <
>>> tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] roundtrip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An example of a (bus) route that goes out and comes back to the same
>>> location. It's not circle shaped at all, but that shouldn't matter for
>>> circular route.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I removed roundtrip=yes and replaced it with
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> circular_route=yes
>>>
>>> closed_loop=no
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the last way wouldn't be in there, closed_loop would be yes. But the
>>> first and the last bus stops are not exactly opposite one another.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2018-05-27 6:22 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org>:
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I wish you a happy trip on that bus, hope it has toilets and a tolerable
>>> coffee machine
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, you sweet, summer child.  Someone's never tried to take a suburban
>>> route in the US, even in a "transit oriented" American city...
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
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