[Tagging] tagging for an office of the local representative to parliament

Colin Smale colin.smale at xs4all.nl
Sun Nov 4 14:05:09 UTC 2018


Thanks for the clear explanation, Allan! 

Although if it really has zero staff, I do wonder who employs the people
who "push the buttons" - authorising and approving payments etc. Do they
work for the Dept of Agriculture? Are they technically "contractors" to
the CCC?

On 2018-11-04 13:43, Allan Mustard wrote:

> The Commodity Credit Corporation is the U.S. equivalent of a British "crown corporation".  It has no staff of its own, a board of directors that consists of the senior political appointees of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and authority to disburse funds to farmers eligible for various government programs.  It has many statutory duties and authorities to provide credit and subsidies, dating back to legislation first passed in the Great Depression.  Programs are implemented by USDA (i.e., government) employees under these authorities.  It is about as far from a commercial enterprise as one can imagine--not even "pseudo-commercial"!  In WTO terms, it is the U.S. government's "national paying agency" for agriculture and so by international treaty is considered a government agency, even though it is incorporated in Delaware as a corporation, has a board of directors, and so on.  If the CCC had an office, it would be tagged office=government, but since CCC only exists on paper, we
mappers don't really have to worry about it :-) On 11/4/2018 3:52 PM, Colin Smale wrote:
> 
> The answer will depend on whether we are talking about landuse, building, office or amenity. 
> 
> Waste disposal is (in Europe) usually a statutory task, performed by a commercial company on behalf of some government. If it is open to the public, then the "amenity" provided is waste disposal / recycling. The landuse is probably something like "waste disposal" or "industrial", similar to how landfill sites might be tagged. The "office" belongs to the commercial company, so that is not governmental. 
> 
> Other areas where this (outsourcing of statutory duties) is commonplace (that I know of) include public transport, administration of visa applications, healthcare provision, assessment of benefits claims, and operation of highways/infrastructure. 
> 
> Government-owned companies like a brewery are IMHO nothing to do with the execution of statutory tasks and are therefore not governmental in any way, shape or form. 
> 
> In the example of the Credit Corporation, does some government organisation have a statutory duty to provide credit? Or does it come under something more general like "protecting the poor"? Would the government be "failing in its statutory duty" if thie company disappeared? Otherwise it sounds like an optional, pseudo-commercial venture which in this case happens to be bankrolled by the government.
> 
> On 2018-11-04 11:13, Warin wrote: 
> 
> Where do you draw the line?
> 
> If a 'government company' has 50% of its income from a government allocation and the rest from elsewhere (e.g. contracts with private companies/individuals) is it 'government' or not?
> 
> On 04/11/18 20:19, Allan Mustard wrote: 
> 
> If it is a profitable company that adds to the government's coffers, such as the Budvar brewery in the Czech Republic, which is government owned, I'd say no.  It should be tagged as a brewery.  Same logic would apply to Rosoboronexport, which is Russia's second-largest revenue earner as an arms exporter.  Petronas, the Malaysian government gas and oil company, should be tagged as a gas and oil company.  Same for Pemex, Petroleo Mexicano, as well as the grocery stores the Bangladeshi army operates.
> 
> If it is a budget-dependent company/corporation, such as the Commodity Credit Corporation of the U.S. government, which generates no revenue of its own and relies wholly on appropriations from the U.S. Congress, yes, it should be tagged government.  As Deep Throat said, "Follow the money!" 
> 
> apm-wa 
> On 11/4/2018 1:29 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> On 4. Nov 2018, at 05:54, Allan Mustard <allan at mustard.net> wrote:
> 
> Paul, as Deep Throat told Bob Woodward, "Follow the money."  Who pays the rent on the office and who pays the salary of the occupant?  If the filthy lucre comes out of the government budget, and the office is used by someone drawing a government salary (as all executives, legislators, and judges do, or are supposed to, at least) then it is a government office.
> 
> what about government owned companies? Should they get a government tag?
> 
> Cheers, Martin

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