[Tagging] Greengrocer vs grocery vs shop=food?

John Willis johnw at mac.com
Tue Oct 9 08:41:15 UTC 2018

sounds like there are several different kinds of shops being discussed

- old old “markets”, from before there were super markets or convenience shops. 

- import/foreign foods shops catering to a local minority population or special cultural interest

- “markets” in developing countries.   

> On Oct 9, 2018, at 11:56 AM, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> What do you think about the need for a shop=grocery tag for small shops in developing countries and specialty grocers in cities?
> Are there still small groceries in Japan which sell non-perishable food items, but would not be properly considerd a shop=convenience, shop=general, shop=greengrocer or shop=supermarket?

I know the shops that you speak of. They were the local “everyday needs” shop - the market/grocery shop, very similar to a general store - but in an urban area. they were the only shop that had some of everything that wasn't covered by the Rice shop, fish shop, the butcher, and the produce stand:  curry mix, spices, dish soap, eggs, milk, toilet paper, etc. they would be shop=market, if that exists.They still exist in Japan, but are almost gone. The mom-n-pop ones are operated by people that live over the shop, and they are still operated for the locals to come sit there and gossip - but everyone goes to the supermarket 3 minutes away. they never look like they sell anything, and most have been shuttered, but a few are still there.  the only corner market I knew of was there are a few shop=general out in the mountains - but all the “markets” were put out of business by supermarkets a long time ago in California. I know of only one from personal experience. I hear of the “corner shop” or “bodegas” in New York - similar to the little corner market Bullitt buys his frozen dinners from in the movie in San Francisco - they seem to be disappearing in developed countries.

They are the proto-market: the Convenience store is more convenient, they have no departments, they are not specific enough to be a greengrocer nor have a stock of blankets, bullets, motor oil, and firewood like a general store - they are the “daily market”, not a giant supermarket - the corner store. 

a small market for daily living in developing countries feels like it would be a shop=general - a general store has a certain feeling when it is the only retail building in 40 miles in any direction, perhaps that is similar to the developing country shops. 

I think shop=general for the small developing countries’ markets or these fading local markets would be a good kludge, but it is not a fit **at all** for some specialty shop in a big city.

> Mediterranean groceries or Caribbean foods, as found in some big cities.

This is a great question. there are all kinds of [asian country] markets in San Diego, and there are Philippine, Brazilian, and “Halal foods” shops here in my area of Japan. There are also chain shops catering to “foreign foods” : American snacks, British mints, South American Coffee, Italian pasta, etc. they almost always are around food. 

if there is a convenience store, a supermarket, a “halal foods” shop, and a butcher shop on the same block - that isn’t 4 “markets” - I think the idea of a “foreign foods" market is good - and then choose a theme or country, or religion, or similar tag would work.  . I don’t know how that aspect would be tagged - but the type of shop - the “import goods from some far off place catering to a minorty group that lives in the region” is a very very common occurrence, and very very rarely considered by the majority residents to be a place to go shopping (they all shop at the supermarket, as their ethnic and culturally specific goods are stocked there). I think having a shop=halal and a shop=Japanese would be wrong - as the only place they would be used is outside those areas, and confusing for people inside those areas. 

If we try to come up with a tag that fits all these uses, it won’t fit. We need to create shop=* tags to fit these separately. 


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