[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Free drinking water by private entities

bkil bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com
Thu Sep 20 16:36:23 UTC 2018

Yes, something like that would do, although we still need to decide
the top level key to use, let me refer to it as "drink_refill" for
now. For example:

Although, it depends on how common these irregular places are. In
Hungary, any kind of drink refilling is very rare, so no amount of
tagging could be considered excessive (although drink_refill=yes would
be enough for us). However, if there are millions of places around the
world with odd exceptions, we need to improve the ergonomics. If this
is the case, we could devise a scheme like:

Or there's even the well known conditional notation:
drink_refill:conditional=yes @ non_alcoholic; no @ (coca-cola;pepsi)

If it is rare, we may still consider an informal short-hard notation like:
drink_refill:description=except Coca-Cola and Pepsi

Do you think one of these could work?

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:30 PM José G Moya Y. <josemoya at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> If we start mapping refill=soft_drinks;coffee... and so on, how would you map sites where some soft drinks are refillable and some are not?
> As an example, in Ikea the bottled unsugared top-brand cola drink (I don't remember whether it is coke zero or pepsi max) can not be refilled, where the unbottled sugared own-brand cola drink can be refilled.
> Would you tag Ikea as "refill=coffee;pear_drink;blueberry_drink;tea_unsugared_drink;cola_sugared_drink"?
> El jue., 20 sept. 2018 14:25, bkil <bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com> escribió:
>> Thanks for your local insights. I believe that the UK program called
>> "Refill" used the word in a different meaning as well, hence the key
>> `free_refill=*` could lead to confusion in the future.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refill_(scheme)
>> Listing the semicolon-separated list of refillable beverages in the
>> value part of the tags sounds like a good idea.
>> I like your take with `drinking_water=customers`, let me update my
>> proposal to this one.
>> My original idea was to add `drinking_water=yes` as well to such
>> shops, but has received chilling responses so far.
>> And do you think that a note to users may be warranted, like
>> `drinking_water:description="on request"`? A potential barrier may be
>> a tourist who does not speak the local language. She could definitely
>> use an unattended water tap either inside or outside the pub, but may
>> have trouble describing to the staff that she wants water but only the
>> free, non-mineral, non-carbonated variant so it will be free. They
>> could mix up the intention with the `owncup` campaign where you get a
>> discount when using your own cup/container for your orders. I imagine
>> pubs would gladly refill with premium content "by accident" in many
>> such cases, or at least I know countries where this would be
>> commonplace. I'll add this case to the description.
>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:32 AM Joseph Eisenberg
>> <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I see that the suggestions about "free refills" are included here because there was some confusion about the use of "free_refill=yes" in central Europe. The English word "refill" implies that it is the second time something has been filled. Thus a customer may request that their glass be filled again with the same beverage.
>> >
>> > I'd suggest a separate proposal page to discuss the free_refill=yes tag.
>> >
>> > In North America, free beverage refills are limited to "soft drinks" (aka fizzy drinks / pop / soda / cola depending on dialect), tea and brewed coffee. Alcoholic beverages, espresso and specialty coffee drinks, and other specialty beverage are usually excluded. I don't recall every seeing free refills of lemonade or fruit juice.
>> >
>> > So it would be sufficient to have free_refill=coffee/tea/soft_drink/yes/no free_refill=yes would imply that all customers can get free refills on coffee, tea and soft drinks, if all are offered. Or at a cafe that only serves coffee and tea, free_refill=yes would mean free refills on coffee and tea (since soft drinks are not available)
>> >
>> > Some places only offer refills for free on one category. For example, a cafe or "diner" may only offer free refills of brewed coffee, while a fast food restaurant often offers free refills of "soft drinks" but not coffee. In this case the specific free_refill=coffee or free_refill=soft_drink would be used.
>> >
>> > I don't think it is necessary to use a more complicated namespaced tag, such as free_refill:coffee=yes, though that could be an alternative.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:00 AM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I’d suggest keeping it simple by using existing tags when possible.
>> >>
>> >> If a cafe or shop gives out free water for customers, tag the shop or cafe with “drinking_water=customers”. If it’s for anyone, “drinking_water=yes” is currently used. I don’t see a need for a new tag “drinking_water=ask”
>> >>
>> >> If there is a drinking fountain, water tap or bottle refill station in a shopping mall or building that has opening_hours, just use amenity=drinking_water plus opening_hours=* on the node. Man_made=water_tap or =drinking_fountain or =water_well can also be added to the same node for more detail.
>> >>
>> >> I believe amenity=drinking_water implies no fee, and public access, so these characteristics do not require explicit tagging
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 8:57 PM bkil <bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd like to discuss three related proposals and two separate ones that
>> >>> can be confused with the others. In all the below cases, the
>> >>> availability is tied to the opening_hours of the containing POI.
>> >>>
>> >>> Five separate proposals could have been created, but I feel that the
>> >>> concepts and words describe these are so close, it is best to have a
>> >>> good overview.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm open to suggestions both related to the tags themselves and how we
>> >>> should structure and document this proposal in the wiki.
>> >>>
>> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Free_drinking_water_by_private_entities
>> >>>
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