[Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

[Warin]

On 20/12/19 17:18, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
>
>
> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 01:16 Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com 
> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>
>     On 20/12/19 10:15, Chris Hill wrote:
>>
>>     I have been a native British English speaker for about sixty
>>     years. A trip from A to B and then back to A, either on a fully
>>     reversed route or an alternative route, would could be described
>>     as a round trip. There is certainly no element of a curved or
>>     looping route required to make it a round trip.
>>
>
>     Nor is there anything in 'round trip' to exclude a curved circular
>     route. Would be interesting to find the origin of 'round trip'.
>>
>>     HTH
>>
>>     Chris
>>
>>     -- 
>>     cheers
>>     Chris Hill (chillly)
>>     On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:
>>>     Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted are
>>>     dictionary for American English, not the variant of English used
>>>     by OSM. Posts by original author of the topic on the wiki talk
>>>     page have explained the meaning of the term in British English.
>>>
>>>     在 2019年12月20日週五 06:19，Francesco Ansanelli
>>>     <francians at gmail.com <mailto:francians at gmail.com>> 寫道：
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Il gio 19 dic 2019, 23:00 Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>             On 20/12/19 01:16, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
>>>             > Dear List,
>>>             >
>>>             > I have updated the roundtrip page and created the
>>>             closed loop proposal
>>>             > in order to address the misuse of the first tag:
>>>             > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:roundtrip
>>>             >
>>>             https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:closed_loop=yes
>>>             >
>>>             > Please let me know what you think
>>>             >
>>>
>>>             The word 'round' implies circular. So a 'roundtrip'
>>>             could be a circular
>>>
>>>
>>>         I'm not a mother tongue but:
>>>
>>>         https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/round%20trip
>>>
>>>
>>>             Definition of /round trip/
>>>
>>>         : a trip to a place and back usually over the same route
>>>
>
>     Oxford Dictionary (usually taken as a good source for UK English):
>     a journey to a place and back again
>
>     Nothing about 'over the same route'.
>
>
> But also not the circular word...
>
>
>>>         https://www.thefreedictionary.com/roundtrip
>>>
>>>
>>>         A trip from one place to another and back, usually over the
>>>         same route.
>>>         https://www.yourdictionary.com/round-trip
>>>
>>>
>>>             round trip
>>>
>>>         noun
>>>
>>>         A trip from one place to another and back, usually over the
>>>         same route.
>>>         Idk if it's clearer why I tried to match the definition.
>>>
>>>             route that does not go from A to B and back along the
>>>             same route, it
>>>             could go A to B to C and then back to A via D. As such
>>>             your rewording is
>>>             wrong and does not match present use.
>>>
>>>             Revert your change.
>>>
>>>
>>>         How about a voting?
>>>
>
>     You may have done that before your change.
>
>
> Sorry for being "rude"... When in Rome...
>
>
>     As I understand it you want to distinguish between routes that use
>     the same route to return to the same place compared to those
>     routes that return to the same place by a different route or at
>     least sections are different.
>     At present both of those are in OSMs 'roundtrip'. Would not this
>     information be obtained by looking at the route as mapped in OSM?
>
>
> I think a tag may enforce it
>

So all the existing round trips will have to be deleted or re-tagged 
with something else .. as they may not meet this definition. I know the 
route I have tagged round trip doers not, so to avoid incorrect data 
they will all have to be deleted.
All the past editors who have learnt the old definition will probably 
continue to use it from the old definition - meaning errors will be 
constantly introduced.
The editors may have top be rejigged too.

>     Is there a need to add this information?
>

By that I mean renders may determine it for themselves using the OSM 
data? If so then this tag is of no real use.
See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip#loop

A bus that goes from A to B and returns 'using the same route' will have 
to turn around .. and that turning will not be using the same route .. 
so it does not meet a strict definition of 'using the same route'.

There are too many problems introduced by this new definition of roundtrip.

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