[Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Phake Nick c933103 at gmail.com
Sat Dec 21 13:41:42 UTC 2019


Reminder 1: There are loops within bus route doesn't mean the route is a
circular or round trip route.
Reminder 2: The roundtrip=* key is designed to use in combination with
hiking routes or bicycle routes. A hiking/bicyle route that goes A→B→A
which come back with the same start point with exact same alignment as the
other direction doesn't really mean anything so I don't think a special
value would be needed for such case. As for bus routes, whether or not it
goes back along same road doesn't really mean anything either.

在 2019年12月21日週六 17:28,Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> 寫道:

> On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
>
> Dear Volker,
>
> I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again:
>
> Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the
> same location.
>
> I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's fine
> for both definitions.
> My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop tag in favour of:
>
> roundtrip:type=linear|circular
>
> Do you agree?
>
>
> No.
>
> "Type" means nothing. Perhaps roundtrip:route=*???
>
> As for the values .. you will need to define them!
>
> 'My' local bus route starts off with ways that are used both directions ..
> and then separates into a loop where the segments are only used in one
> direction.
>
> I could imaging routes that have several loops  used in one direction and
> then ways that are used in both directions .. arrr there is another  route
> that does that ...
>
> So what values will there be to cover complex cases???
>
>
> Francesco
>
>
> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 22:45 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other
>> wiki-changes on halt for a moment.
>> What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being used
>> (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the use should
>> be) and in particular if there is a more-than sporadic use of
>> roundtrip=yes|no for anything else than loop=yes|no.
>> It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but:
>> A fast overpass turbo wizard query
>> "type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in
>> Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern"
>> resulted in
>> Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops
>> France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops
>> England:  25 lines, all loops.
>> USA:  29, about 6 non-loops
>> Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops
>> For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of all cycle
>> route relations in these countries that have a roundrip=yes are in fact
>> loops and that that this is the de-facto use of the tag.
>> I think this is a strong case against any change.
>>
>> Taginfo points in the same direction
>> 12665 roundtrip=no
>> 21774 roundtrip=yes
>> 42 closed_loop=yes
>> no closed_loop=no
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli <francians at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In my opinion the options are:
>>>
>>> - deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally agreed naming
>>> convention (best at this point)
>>> - keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I did change
>>> (relations must be updated accordingly)
>>>
>>> I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point out that is not
>>> a resolution because tag is currently messed up
>>>
>>> Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr <doerr.stephen at gmail.com> ha
>>> scritto:
>>>
>>>> On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted are dictionary
>>>> for American English, not the variant of English used by OSM. Posts by
>>>> original author of the topic on the wiki talk page have explained the
>>>> meaning of the term in British English.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The OED definitions read as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Originally U.S.
>>>>  A. n.
>>>>  1.
>>>>  a. A journey to a place and back again, along the same route; (also) a
>>>> journey to one or more places and back again which does not cover the same
>>>> ground twice, a circular tour or trip.
>>>>
>>>>  b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2.
>>>>
>>>>  2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining and Oil Industry) an
>>>> act of withdrawing and replacing a drill pipe.
>>>>
>>>>  3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or an instance of buying
>>>> and selling the same stock, commodity, etc., often simultaneously. Cf.
>>>> round turn n. 4.
>>>>
>>>>  B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American.
>>>>
>>>>  1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various senses). Cf. return n.
>>>> Compounds 1.
>>>>
>>>>  2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal and figurative).
>>>>
>>>>  C. adv. Chiefly North American.
>>>>
>>>>   As a round trip; by travelling to a place and back again.
>>>>
>>>> Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North American'. It's an
>>>> American phrase, though now widely adopted in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>
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