[Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

[Warin]

On 21/12/19 21:25, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
> And with existing tags how you describe it?

I don't.
>
> Il sab 21 dic 2019, 10:28 Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com 
> <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>
>     On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
>>     Dear Volker,
>>
>>     I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again:
>>
>>     Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are
>>     at the same location.
>>
>>     I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and
>>     it's fine for both definitions.
>>     My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop tag in favour of:
>>
>>     roundtrip:type=linear|circular
>>
>>     Do you agree?
>
>     No.
>
>     "Type" means nothing. Perhaps roundtrip:route=*???
>
>     As for the values .. you will need to define them!
>
>     'My' local bus route starts off with ways that are used both
>     directions .. and then separates into a loop where the segments
>     are only used in one direction.
>
>     I could imaging routes that have several loops  used in one
>     direction and then ways that are used in both directions .. arrr
>     there is another  route that does that ...
>
>     So what values will there be to cover complex cases???
>
>
>>     Francesco
>>
>>
>>     Il ven 20 dic 2019, 22:45 Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:voschix at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>>
>>         Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any
>>         other wiki-changes on halt for a moment.
>>         What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is
>>         being used (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use,
>>         not what the use should be) and in particular if there is a
>>         more-than sporadic use of roundtrip=yes|no for anything else
>>         than loop=yes|no.
>>         It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but:
>>         A fast overpass turbo wizard query
>>         "type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in
>>         Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern"
>>         resulted in
>>         Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops
>>         France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops
>>         England:  25 lines, all loops.
>>         USA:  29, about 6 non-loops
>>         Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops
>>         For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of
>>         all cycle route relations in these countries that have a
>>         roundrip=yes are in fact loops and that that this is the
>>         de-facto use of the tag.
>>         I think this is a strong case against any change.
>>
>>         Taginfo points in the same direction
>>         12665 roundtrip=no
>>         21774 roundtrip=yes
>>         42 closed_loop=yes
>>         no closed_loop=no
>>
>>         Volker
>>
>>
>>         	
>>         	
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli
>>         <francians at gmail.com <mailto:francians at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             In my opinion the options are:
>>
>>             - deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a
>>             generally agreed naming convention (best at this point)
>>             - keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition
>>             I did change (relations must be updated accordingly)
>>
>>             I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point
>>             out that is not a resolution because tag is currently
>>             messed up
>>
>>             Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr
>>             <doerr.stephen at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:doerr.stephen at gmail.com>> ha scritto:
>>
>>                 On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:
>>>                 Merriam Webster and some other resources you have
>>>                 quoted are dictionary for American English, not the
>>>                 variant of English used by OSM. Posts by original
>>>                 author of the topic on the wiki talk page have
>>>                 explained the meaning of the term in British English.
>>
>>                 The OED definitions read as follows:
>>
>>                     Originally U.S.
>>                      A. n.
>>                      1.
>>                      a. A journey to a place and back again, along
>>                     the same route; (also) a journey to one or more
>>                     places and back again which does not cover the
>>                     same ground twice, a circular tour or trip.
>>
>>                      b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2.
>>
>>                      2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining
>>                     and Oil Industry) an act of withdrawing and
>>                     replacing a drill pipe.
>>
>>                      3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or
>>                     an instance of buying and selling the same stock,
>>                     commodity, etc., often simultaneously. Cf. round
>>                     turn n. 4.
>>
>>                      B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American.
>>
>>                      1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various
>>                     senses). Cf. return n. Compounds 1.
>>
>>                      2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal
>>                     and figurative).
>>
>>                      C. adv. Chiefly North American.
>>
>>                       As a round trip; by travelling to a place and
>>                     back again.
>>
>>                 Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North
>>                 American'. It's an American phrase, though now widely
>>                 adopted in the UK.
>>
>>                 -- 
>>                 Steve
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>

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