[Tagging] Was public_transport=platform intended to > always be combined with highway=bus_stop?

Peter Neale nealepb at yahoo.co.uk
Wed Jul 31 13:05:51 UTC 2019

FWIW, I agree; No more tags, please, when we can manage with those that we have.
Busses stop at bus-stops and the route information shows which bus-stops they serve and the times when they are due there, so these should be tagged with ID, Ref Number, etc. as appropriate.  
A platform is a raised structure, constructed to bring the passengers up to, or near, the same level as the floor in the transport vehicle (bus, tram, train).  So, if there is a platform at the bus-stop, that can be mapped, just as tactile pavement might be, but needs no more tags.
Trains stop at stations and the route information and timetable show which stations they serve and when they are due to arrive/depart, so the whole area should be mapped and tagged as a station.  Within the station there will normally be several platforms, which may be named "Platform 1", "Platform 2"... ...or "Platform A", "Platform B" etc.  These could / should be mapped and given an name tag.  Whilst trains for particular destinations may NORMALLY use a certain platform, that can vary, depending on breakdowns, delays, scheduling issues, etc. so the Platforms should not be tagged with further information about the trains / route(s) using them.
The only potential issues I can see with my own argument above are:  How will the stations be connected to the railway lines? / Do they need to be? / How does the train route relation connect lines and stations? 
I do hope that helps, rather than just making things more confusing. 
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:51:13 +0900
>From: Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>
>To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
    <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
>Subject: Re: [Tagging] Was public_transport=platform intended to
>    always be combined with highway=bus_stop?
>    <CAP_2vPiH0G_3BFw6SaD55GA8OvTHQVVD25tk25W4SJA_pdxS+g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

>Agreed, there are enough tags for public transport already. I don't
>think anything new is needed.

>If there is a platform where buses stop, then there's a bus stop, and
>a platform. The platform is a physical feature, and I believe it would
>still be a highway=platform even if the bus service were discontinued.

>The bus stop represents that public buses actually stop at the
>location to pick up or drop off passengers.

>The ref= should go on whatever of the two features that it actual
>refers to: if it's on the bus stop sign or pole, it probably
>represents the bus stop, but it might actually refer to the physical
>platform and each different bus route that stops there might have a
>different ref=* for that bus stop.

>Perhaps sometimes you'll have to add the ref=* to both the stop and
>the platform, but that's ok. The public_transport=stop_position +
>=platform + stop_area idea often leads to putting the same ref on 3
>different objects.

>In all other situations (rail platforms, regular bus stops without an
>elevated platform, tram stops etc), the Refined_Public_Transport>proposal is clearly simpler than using public_transport=* tags, so it
>looks like a good option.


>>On 7/31/19, yo paseopor <yopaseopor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> please: NO MORE TAGS
>> Either... can we mix all the tags of all the versions of Public transport
>> into a UNIQUE scheme for ALL kinds of transports, tagging it at the same
>> way with the same name: from electric autonomous buses to new Uber's
>> helicopters?
>> A scheme has to be scalable. Can we define that? Can we design that?
>> -Basic parts>> -Basic tags
>> -Basic values
>> And then... some kind of automated conversion of tags done by local
>> communities, with specific instructions at the wiki. Also tag as deprecated
>> all the old mixed stuff.
>> What do you think?
>> Salut i mapes (health and maps)>> yopaseopor
>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:37 AM Markus <selfishseahorse at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Joseph
>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 at 15:59, Joseph Eisenberg
>>> <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I still haven't seen any benefit in adding public_transport=platform
>> >> to highway=bus_stop or highway=platform or railway=platform features,
>> >> and it doesn't look like the =stop_position tag is needed for routers
>> >> either, so all 3 of the main public_transport tags (except perhaps the
>> >> stop_area relation?) are rarely helpful.
>>> I agree, and it seems that most people that took part in this long
>>> discussion [1] i initiated in April about improving public transport
>>> mapping agreed too.
>>> [1]:
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-transit/2019-April/002052.html
>>> While highway=bus_stop works in most simpler cases, it doesn't work
>>> very well for bus stations. For example, consider this simplified map
>>> of the postbus station in Bern. [2]
>>> [2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Postautostation_Bern.svg
>>> It consists of seven platforms, numbered 1–7, and a mere pole on the>>> sidewalk with the number 8. As highway=bus_stop and highway=platform
>>> both use the the highway=* key and thus can't be combined, for every
>>> platform i would need to map a highway=platform and a highway=bus_stop
>>> object. But which one should get the ref=*? Both? And which one should
>>> be added to the route relation? Usually highway=bus_stop is added to
>>> the route relation, but for trains, it is the platform.
>>> A possible solution of this problem were to invent a new tag for
>>> stops, which doesn't use the highway=* or railway=* key and thus can
>>> be combined with highway/railway=platform (e.g. public_transport=stop;
>>> or, alternatively, a new tag for platforms). However, i haven't got
>>> any feedback on that idea, so i don't know whether the community would
>>> accept such a change in tagging.
>>> Regards
>>> Markus
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>>  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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