[Tagging] Mismatched tag status

Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan at gmail.com
Tue Jun 11 00:39:54 UTC 2019

P.S. I'm all for merging the inuse and defacto statuses, but that's a
separate discussion.

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 03:34 Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Paul, as a programmer, I'm sure you know the difference between a keyword
> and the text shown to the user.  The issue is not in translation, the issue
> is that we have two __keywords__:   "defacto" or "inuse".  It does not
> matter how English, German, and other wiki pages translate those keywords.
> You can see all status translations here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:StatusLang&action=edit
> German translates "inuse" as "in Benutzung", and "defacto" as "de facto"
> -- so clearly both are defined. In most cases, status is the same in
> English and in German, except the cases I found with a query.  BTW,
> templates should use _keywords_, and not english/german/other text for the
> "status=" parameter.
> As for definition -- Template:Description shows this:
> * inuse: the feature is in use
> * defacto: the tag is in widespread use, but no formal proposal process
> has taken place
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Description
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 2:43 AM Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 00:21, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> There is currently 267 key & tags on OSM wiki with mismatching STATUS
>>> field, as seen in http://tinyurl.com/y62j5m5e - e.g. amenity=fast_food
>>> has status=defacto in 10 languages, except German where it is marked as
>>> status=in use. Clearly this is not intentional, and should be the same in
>>> all languages.
>> If everything should be the same in all languages then we only need one
>> language.  Oh, you
>> didn't mean everything, just certain phrases describing status.  But I'm
>> fairly sure that not every
>> language uses the word "approved" to mean approved, so obviously we need
>> a language-
>> specific translation of the term.
>> Here's the thing.  In terms of OSM statuses, "de facto" means that the
>> tag is in use.  So you
>> appear to be complaining that idiomatic German prefers not to use a
>> phrase from a dead
>> language to describe a tag's status as being in use.
>> I'm not convinced you chose a good example.  Ones where the mismatch is
>> between "approved"
>> and "in use" are a definite mismatch which need correcting.  I'd be
>> inclined to leave "in use" as
>> a German synonym for "de facto" unless people who have German as a first
>> language say that
>> "de facto" would be acceptable.  Not all languages borrow phrases from
>> Latin, and in some
>> languages "de facto" is incomprehensible gibberish.  Mutatis mutandis, of
>> course.
>> --
>> Paul
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