[Tagging] paid ferry - fee or toll tag

Tobias Zwick osm at westnordost.de
Sat Jun 22 09:25:46 UTC 2019


Colin Smale, this is a very wise thing to say. I think this is often a missing element in tagging discussions.

Is there a tagging suggestion guidelines page on the wiki? If yes, this is definitely one point that should be added. And if not,  maybe we (people on the mailing list) should create one: Not too set up rules, but just to get everyone on the same page regarding what a good tag design is.

On June 22, 2019 11:03:31 AM GMT+02:00, Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>On 2019-06-22 10:38, bkil wrote:
>
>> If we step back a bit from our dictionaries, fee=* as a concept is
>> isomorphic to toll=* (and fare) in this context.
>
>Only insofar as they indicate that the user has to pay. "Toll" has a
>distinct meaning, in the UK at least, that it is (and needs to be)
>sanctioned by law. 
>
>> As all of them could
>> be understood by native speakers and fee=* covers a more general
>> category, it is clearly the better choice. If we consider our data
>> users, non-native speakers and learning curve, the less terms we use
>> in our vocabulary, the better.
>
>"As simple as possible, but not simpler". Attributed to Albert
>Einstein,
>and a philosophy I wholeheartedly embrace. If it is required to be able
>to make the distinction between a charge levied based on a legal
>sanction, and a charge simply levied by the owner because they feel
>like
>it, then the subtle difference between "toll" and the other words is
>significant. If we all agree that the distinction is not to be
>represented in OSM, then this discussion is moot - call it something
>neutral like payment, fee, charge, whatever. This process is called
>data
>modelling; the modelling aspect comes from the fact that you have to
>make compromises, and you have to choose which compromises to make
>according to what is important to you. Otherwise you are just
>replicating reality at full scale, which defeats the point of
>modelling.
>
>
>As this is OSM, it only takes one person to want to make this
>distinction to unchain interminable discussions... 
>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 01:33, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Oxford Dictionary says
>> 
>> Toll : A charge payable to use a bridge or road.
>> 
>> Yep.  Also, in the UK, carries legal implications.  Legislation is
>required to require tolls on a
>> public highway.
>> 
>> Fee : A payment made to a professional person or to a professional or
>public body in exchange for advice or services.
>> 
>> That's how I'd use it.  Of course, ferries provide a ferry service,
>so fee could be used.  But I'd go
>> with something else: fare.  We don't talk of rail tolls or rail fees,
>we talk of rail fares.  We don't talk
>> of air tolls or air fees, we talk of air fares.  From OED online:
>"The money paid for a journey on
>> public transport."
>> 
>> --
>> Paul
>> 
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