[Tagging] New Tag "Departures" voting results.

Paul Allen pla16021 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 5 18:35:10 UTC 2019

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 17:37, Jarek PiĆ³rkowski <jarek at piorkowski.ca> wrote:

> If your use case is people using the query tool on
> https://openstreetmap.org to follow links to PDFs to plan a journey,

Might be a PDF or a simple web page or a Web 2.0 page with funky effects
and even live
updates.  Sadly, given the stupidity of the operators around here, the URL
changes every
time the timetable is updated.

then whatever tagging specification you use doesn't really matter as
> long as it's understandable to the people viewing it - a link looks
> like a link so that's quite easy.

Yes, humans will be OK with whatever key is used as long as the query tool
values that look like URLs into links (which is what it appears to do).
However, it's
nice if we have something consistent and distinct from either website=* or
which may have other application for the route (or stop, if we add this
information to
stops).  It's always better to make it clear what a link is for than rely
on "that's
a link to something, perhaps it's a timetable."  Especially if we want to
be able
to link to both timetables (for humans) and GTFS data (for apps).

For that matter, for the 10-trips-a-day routes, if you're willing to put in
> the manual

effort, you can probably put the departures into a "departures" tag on the
> stop and it'll be useful when someone queries the stop - the proposal
> got rejected so it's not official guidance, but it doesn't have to be
> official for you to add it and for people to view it.

It's not useful on many routes.  Like ones where there's a different
timetable for Saturdays,
no service on Sundays, and one or two of the departures change on school
holidays.  Here
are the codes applying to the T5 route near me:

Sch   Schooldays only
FS    Via Fishguard High School on schooldays
S+H Saturday and school holidays only
A      Via Pembrokeshire College on college days
S      Via Aberaeron School on schooldays
SAT  Operates Saturdays only
Col  Connects with College buses
L      Via Llanbadarn Road
HS   Drops off High Street, doesn't drop off at Bus Station
LC    Via Llanbadarn Campus, Aberystwyth
X50  Journey destination shows X50, not T5.
T1    Change onto T1 service at Aberaeron
FH    Connection at Fishguard Square for 410 Fishguard Harbour
FS    Via Fishguard School [is this different from the FS above?]
C      Timed to meet with T1 at Aberaeron
cb     Connection with Cardi Bach

Actually, it's a little more complex than that. There are other annotations

General-purpose transit apps need a machine-readable data format and
> for better or worse, GTFS is the least bad and by far most widespread
> one we've got. Everything else is proprietary, horrible to work with
> (XML SOAP and the like), or both. I know that NaPTAN data got imported
> in some regions of London a good couple of years back, but I really
> draw your attention to the "last modified 2013" in the DfT page you've
> linked - GTFS won and the world has moved on, even Germans are
> starting to publish transit open data as GTFS now.

I'm glad GTFS won.  That means we can ignore the NaPTAN stuff.

Where we don't have GTFS, but want to have machine-readable and
> widely-machine-understood timetables for public transit systems,
> building a GTFS file seems a far better option than inventing yet
> another standard within OSM.

That seems the best option to me.  It's the primary reason I voted down the
proposal.  There are even sites that give you tools to do that and host it
for you.  Much better
than trying to shoehorn all that into an OSM value.

> I'd use website=* for domains like www.foo.com but url=* for a specific
> page within a website.
> I'm not familiar with tagging guidance that suggests this,

>From https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:url

This tag is being used for very different types of content - official
websites of an amenity or its operator, third-party pages, the object's
Wikipedia entry, photographs featuring the object, or even documentation on
the OSM wiki. So it is advised not to use this tag when more specific
alternatives are available such as website...

So if there's a whole website about an object I use website=* but if it's a
single page within a website
I use url=*.  It's not mandatory (nothing is) but it's what I do.  But I'd
prefer we have specific keys for
timetables and GTFS data rather than rely upon either of those.  Much
better to make things clear
with timetable=* and gtfs=* (except we have to deal with partial
timetables/feeds from operators
who both run the same route, so we'll need something fancier than that).

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