[Tagging] How to tag pedestrian lanes?

Tobias Zwick osm at westnordost.de
Mon Oct 21 10:12:58 UTC 2019


Shoulders are a common feature on many roads. And the tagging for this is already established. Maybe a different way to tag kerb-less sidewalks thus would then be 

shoulder=right
shoulder:right:access=foot
(or access no and ...:foot=designated?)
shoulder:right:width=1

Though, in regards of software support,  I  my earlier suggestion is better, as no modification on existing software is necessary to understand that a sidewalk without kerb is still for pedestrians and used the same as a sidewalk, regardless of whether in (Oxford) English, one may or may not call this thing "sidewalk".

 (Existing) software will treat shoulders primarily as a feature relevant for cars.

Tobias 

On October 21, 2019 9:40:03 AM GMT+02:00, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>“Sidewalk” is North American English, but it’s used because the
>British term is “pavement”, which is confusing due to its dual
>meaning. As a North American I would expect it to be separated from
>the road by a curb (kerb) or a strip of grass.
>
>Oxford dictionaries definition, Pavement:
>"1. British A raised paved or asphalted path for pedestrians at the
>side of a road.
>- ‘he fell and hit his head on the pavement’
>- North American term:   sidewalk"
>https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/pavement
>
>Wikipedia claims:
>"... normally separated from the vehicular section by a curb. There
>may also be a median strip or road verge (a strip of vegetation..."
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewalk
>
>These definitions fit my impression, as an American, that a "sidewalk"
>is a separate feature, not part of the same paved road surface as the
>main lanes of the highway.
>
>If there's just a painted line, we would normally call the space
>between the line and the edge of the asphalt "the shoulder" of the
>road in a rural area, or it can also be a "bike lane" if it's wide
>enough and there are certain markings.
>
>So I'm in favor of a new key like pedestrian_lane=right/left/both,
>rather than calling these a type of sidewalk
>
>- Joseph Eisenberg
>
>On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 3:51 PM Mateusz Konieczny
><matkoniecz at tutanota.com> wrote:
>>
>> 20 Oct 2019, 19:08 by selfishseahorse at gmail.com:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 at 12:42, Tobias Zwick <osm at westnordost.de>
>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about:
>>>>
>>>> sidewalk=right
>>>> sidewalk:right:kerb=no
>>>
>>>
>>> I dislike using these tags for pedestrian lanes for the following
>>> reasons (sorry if i repeat myself):
>>>
>>> * It doesn't make sense: if it doesn't have a kerb (or any other
>>> physical barrier) it isn't a sidewalk.
>>
>> I am curious about opinion of a native speaker
>> of British English.
>>
>> Are you maybe one?
>>
>> (Sorry for poor phrasing here,
>> I tried to make it less aggressive and failed)
>>>
>>> * Blind people are able to make out a sidewalk, but not a pedestrian
>lane.
>>
>> No one argues against tagging this info.
>> We only disagree how it should be tagged.
>>>
>>> * It's misleading: Data users may not know the tag
>>> sidewalk:right:kerb=no and thus may make wrong assumptions. For
>>> example, a navigation application may guide a pedestrian along a
>route
>>> with only pedestrian lanes instead of safer route with sidewalks.
>>
>> And with a new incompatible tag
>> routing software may guide along
>> road without even such lane, instead of
>> using route where at least pedestrian
>> lanes are present.
>>
>> In both cases routing software would
>> benefit from an upgrade.
>>>
>>>
>>> * pedestrian_lane=<left/right/both> is simpler for mappers and data
>users.
>>
>> Depends on whatever you consider
>> it as a low quality sidewalk or
>> a separate feature.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
>On 10/21/19, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>>> On 21. Oct 2019, at 08:51, Mateusz Konieczny
><matkoniecz at tutanota.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am curious about opinion of a native speaker
>>> of British English.
>>
>>
>> while I am not, I’m pretty sure the British term is pavement, not
>sidewalk
>> (for the kerb separated way, no idea about the marking separated way)
>>
>> We had deliberately chosen the word sidewalk for OpenStreetMap
>tagging
>> because of the ambiguity of ”pavement “
>>
>> Cheers Martin
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>>
>
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