[Tagging] Draft proposal for Key:aerodrome

Tue Sep 10 11:04:38 UTC 2019

To keep things in one place, I have copied my comment on the wiki
discussion page together with Josephs response here. Once concepts have
been conflated, once accuracy is lost, it is impossible to recreate it.

> "An international airport currently is aeroway [1]=aerodrome [2] + name [3]=* + iata [4]=* + icao [5]=* + operator [6]=*, so we can either add aerodrome [7]=international [8] or add international_flights [9]=yes + commercial_flights [10]=yes + general_aviation [11]=yes."

If you tag it as aerodrome=international, you don't know if GA is
supported or not. And is a one-off charter flight also "commercial"? 

Airports don't need to have their own buildings for customs/immigration,
any more than yacht harbours do. As long as a customs officer is
prepared to meet the flight, or if there is some other process in place,
then international flights can possibly be accommodated. 

======================= 

Surely these values are orthogonal attributes, not a classifier for the
whole aerodrome? Looking from the air it would not be possible to see
the difference, unless you use this value as some kind of a proxy for
"size" or "apparent importance". An aerodrome is an aerodrome; it MAY
have commercial (scheduled?) flights, it MAY be used for cargo flights,
it MAY have facilities for international flights (presence or
availability of customs/immigration facilities), it MAY allow GA
traffic, etc. --Csmale [12] (talk [13]) 08:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
"Looking from the air it would not be possible to see the difference" -
Right, these tags are about the purpose/function of the
aerodrome/airport, not how it looks from the air or it's size on the
map. This can be calculated from the area, if it's mapped as one. The
definition in this proposal makes it clear that aerodrome
[7]=international [8] is a subset of commercial airports: it's an
aerodrome that has scheduled commercial passenger service to another
country. Similarly aerodrome [7]=airstrip [14] is a subset of
general_aviation aerodromes which lack services and paved runways. These
two tags are the ones that I'm interested in adding. But I thought it
would be reasonable to provide a tag for general_aviation aerodromes -
this is pretty much the "default" value, since most aerodromes fit this
definition, and "private" is widely used - as mentioned, I think we
should probably add access [15]=private [16] to these. While in theory
"an aerodrome is an aerodrome", airports don't suddently start offering
international flights without major construction projects to add customs
and immigration facilities, usually in a new terminal building or
addition. And an airstrip won't suddenly start offering commercial
flights. The alternative would be creating a bunch of new property tags,
like international_flights=yes, commercial_flights=yes,
general_aviation=yes, er... airstrip=yes? An international airport
currently is aeroway [1]=aerodrome [2] + name [3]=* + iata [4]=* + icao
[5]=* + operator [6]=*, so we can either add aerodrome [7]=international
[8] or add international_flights [9]=yes + commercial_flights [10]=yes +
general_aviation [11]=yes. And tagging an "airstrip" as fuel=no,
hangar=no, paved_runway=no etc. would be rather over-complicated. While
having such details might be nice for pilots, it wouldn't give general
map users much help. --Jeisenbe [17] (talk [18]) 10:03, 10 September
2019 (UTC) 

On 2019-09-10 11:14, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

>> re we going to discuss this on the mailing list, or in the wiki discussion page, or both, or what?
> 
> "Both" is probably the realistic option.
> 
> We can't require anyone to login to wiki.openstreetmap.org to comment
> on this idea, though I do think the discussion there would be easier
> to follow.
> 
>> aeroway=airstrip
> 
> This feature is not currently rendered by any maps that I am aware of.
> 
>> Many outback homesteads (ranches) have an [aerodrome] with more uses and also usually provides refuelling and basic primitive aircraft services.
> 
> This would probably be aerodrome=private, since it's not open to
> anyone else other than the ranch / station owners and their invited
> guests, I imagine? Adding access=private would be recommended.
> 
> - Joseph
> 
> On 9/10/19, Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl> wrote: Point of order, also with half an eye on the "tagging governance"
> discussion.... Are we going to discuss this on the mailing list, or in
> the wiki discussion page, or both, or what? I suggest focussing on a
> single platform, and placing a notification on the other platform
> directing readers to the other platform, if you see what I mean.
> 
> On 2019-09-10 10:32, Warin wrote:
> 
> On 10/09/19 17:35, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> 
> I've started a new proposal for Key:aerodrome.
> 
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:aerodrome
> 
> This proposal uses aerodrome=* for classification of an
> aeroway=aerodrome as an international airport, other commercial
> airport, general aviation aerodrome, private aerodrome, or airstrip.
> 
> It would deprecate aeroway=airstrip and aerodrome:type=*
> 
> Values to be approved:
> * aerodrome=international         - already common
> * aerodrome=commercial          - new tag
> * aerodrome=general_aviation  - new tag (default type)
> * aerodrome=private                  - already common
> * aerodrome=airstrip
> 
> Currently the IATA code is quite helpful for finding commercial
> airports which offer scheduled passenger flights, but a few aerodromes
> with an IATA code do not have commercial flights.
> 
> It would be helpful to know which airports have international flights,
> and the tag aerodrome=international has already been used over 1000
> times.
> 
> aerodrome=airstrip is better than aeroway=airstrip, because an
> airstrip is still a type of aerodrome.
> 
> aerodrome=private is already widely used, but I'm also recommending
> adding access=* 
> Here there are 'international' and 'domestic' airports. I think 'domestic'
> might be better than 'commercial'???
> 
> I have no idea what a 'aerodrome=private' is. I think this could include
> airports used for skydiving .. so open to the public. Arr it is also on
> the proposal page sorry. It is a confusing value, no idea of a better
> term. There are also sailplane airstrips used to launch and land
> sailplanes. The launching may be done by a 'tug' aircraft. They can be
> open to the public for joy flights in tandem sailplanes.
> 
> Many outback homesteads (ranches) have an airstrip for their own use. This
> use can be to get to the shops, the neighbours, mail deliveries, farm
> duties and for the flying doctor. This goes beyond the proposaled
> aerodrome=airstrip, in that it has more uses and also usually provides
> refuelling and basic primitive aircraft services.
> I think the reason why aeroway=airstrip is use is so that it does not
> render until zoomed in. Yes, a rendering issue taken care of by tagging.
> 
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Links:
------
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aeroway
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Daerodrome
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:iata
[5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:icao
[6] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator
[7] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:aerodrome
[8]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aerodrome%3Dinternational&action=edit&redlink=1
[9]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:international_flights&action=edit&redlink=1
[10]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:commercial_flights&action=edit&redlink=1
[11]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:general_aviation&action=edit&redlink=1
[12] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Csmale
[13]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Csmale&action=edit&redlink=1
[14]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:aerodrome%3Dairstrip&action=edit&redlink=1
[15] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access
[16] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dprivate
[17] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jeisenbe
[18] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Jeisenbe
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