[Tagging] Rio de la Plata edit war

muralito at montevideo.com.uy muralito at montevideo.com.uy
Mon Aug 3 18:42:12 UTC 2020

> De: "Paul Norman via Tagging" <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Para: tagging at openstreetmap.org
> CC: "Paul Norman" <penorman at mac.com>
> Enviados: Sábado, 1 de Agosto 2020 3:18:34
> Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Rio de la Plata edit war

> On 2020-07-31 8:21 a.m., Andy Townsend wrote:

>> On 26/05/2020 00:20, Alan Mackie wrote:

>>> Has this edit war stabilised?

>>> Apparently it has been blocking coastline updates across the whole world for
>>> months now.

>>> https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html
>>> https://github.com/fossgis/osmdata/issues/7

>> (picking this thread up again because there still hasn't exactly been a meeting
>> of minds here)

>> land polygons have been generated (see
>> https://osmdata.openstreetmap.de/data/land-polygons.html ) and
>> https://github.com/fossgis/osmdata/issues/7 has been resolved by manually
>> "releasing" the coastline. The current situation in OSM is
>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/WD8 - at the time of writing this the coastline
>> crosses the river north of Buenos Aires.

>> However, edits are continuing (see
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88787419 ). I'm not convinced that
>> moving to one of two extremes, even a small amount at a time, is a good idea
>> until there's actually been discussion between the proponents of the various
>> positions.

>> For what it's worth, neither extreme position looks the best answer to me -
>> looking at the salinity change between river to ocean at
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X07000716 (see
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0307904X07000716 for the key
>> picture) and looking at
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Rio_de_la_Plata_BA_2.JPG suggests a
>> location some way between the two. Despite the NASA photo it looks like there
>> isn't a "step change" in salinity - and of course values will fluctuate based
>> on winds and tides etc
> I live near the coast and have done coastline processing, including a great deal
> worldwide during the redaction.

> Salinity and territorial control have seldom been considerations in where the
> break between water mapped as waterway=riverbank and natural=coastline that I
> have seen. The break is chosen as a convenient place for mappers and a common
> view of where the coast of the ocean is, not based on scientific salinity
> criteria. For territorial control, look at all the inlets along the BC or
> Norwegian coasts.


for sure, the coast of the ocean starts in Punta del Este, Uruguay and in Punta Rasa (San Clemente). My personal experience is in Punta del Este, and it is incredible how the beaches changes from this point to the east and to the west. There are two very different kind of coast, to the east one with waves, wind, salinity, notable changes in the seabed of the beaches, currents, cold salty water, etc. The other one to the west is calm, almost no winds, no currents, very small waves of less than 40-50 cm, very low salinity, fresh water not so cold. 

The scientific studies you can read matches what can be seen here in the ground, in the beaches, and in the videos i linked in my previous mail. 
No, its hard to see it from aerial imagery, but it seems that i'm discusing with armchair mappers, and they dont put any argument of why the coastline in between of Punta del Este-Punta Rasa is a bad idea. For the obviously changing limit of the river/ocean, this line is "like an average", like the mean high water springs is for the ocean shore. 

on the other hand, what about the local knowledge? the on-the-ground survey? those does'nt have value in this discussion? 



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