[Tagging] Central European insight needed: cukrászda, cukrárna, cukiernia, ciastkarnia, cukráreň, pasticceria, konditorei, patisserie, ...

bkil bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com
Wed Jul 1 02:08:51 UTC 2020

So just a quick idea, what do you think if we subtyped amenity=café?

What non-UK people refer to as a café:
amenity=cafe + cafe=coffeehouse

Diners/greasy spoon and whatnot:
amenity=cafe + cafe=diner

Or even this one:
amenity=cafe + cafe=teehouse

amenity=cafe + cafe=cukrászda***
(***We're still working on the word to recommend, but many came up
already, like dessert, dessert_bakery, sweet_bakery, fancy_bakery,
patisserie and others)

For the kind of cukrászda where you can not sit in, we could also add
takeaway=only/capacity=0 to this or maybe introduce shop=*** instead.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 11:40 PM Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 20:13, Gábor Fekete <fekgabimr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's about the main function. In an imagined daily routine (similarly to Bkil), coffeehouse (and cukrászda) is the place of some social life after or between meals. One can arrange a date with his/her (girl)friend, or even a meeting with a business partner for a short talk in a posh coffeehouse in a calm ambience (soft chillout music, porcelain tableware). It's not about the food or the coffee :)
> So nobody would ever go to a cukrászda alone, just to eat the limited fare.
> And nobody would ever have a romantic meeting at a McDonalds.  Except
> that both of those happen.  Yeah, I know you said main function, but it's all
> blurred together, especially with the existing tags.  McDonalds calls itself
> a fast food restaurant yet I get mocked because it occupies my mental
> space for "cafe" and I think of "fast food" as a type of cuisine.
> The discussions so far make things murkier.  At one moment bkil argues
> that cukrászda sell only coffee and should be split off, and that sounds
> sensible.  Then he says they sell cakes.  And sandwiches.  Which puts
> them into that broad category in the wiki for amenity=cafe, which
> encompasses anything from coffee shops to diners (but not if the
> diners sell fast food, everyone assures me).
> A cukrászda sounds almost like a UK coffee shop, which can be for
> socializing/meeting but is also for people who feel a little hungry.  Except
> places that start out as coffee shops in the UK usually end up selling more
> substantial meals too.
> It is a horrible mess.  Our tags, especially amenity=cafe, are a poor fit to
> reality.  Retagging everything would be the only way to bring some sense to it.
> But that will never happen. Maybe the best we can do is carve out something for
> coffee shops that can be applied to newly-mapped POIs and accept that the rest
> is a mess.  Doing that might let this thread die down.
> --
> Paul
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