[Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

Tod Fitch tod at fitchfamily.org
Wed Jul 22 15:25:30 UTC 2020

It certainly would not be my pick of terms, but it seems manhole=drain has an appropriate definition in the wiki [1] and considerable use [2] for a place that water disappears into a man made structure. Most of them around here are not circular and many appear to be too small for a person to get into when the grate is removed. But OSM has odd tagging for other things so why not this too?

I will start tagging that where the surface drainage ditches disappear into the ground. I wonder if QA tools like Osmose will stop nagging me about those waterways.

We are still left with the situation where an ephemeral waterway fans out over the desert and disappears. We need some sort of tagging to indicate this is not a mistake and I’ve not seen a tag or value come up in this discussion that has any existing use or consensus in the list.

These are definitely not sink holes and shouldn’t be tagged as such.

Digression: The wiki page for natural=sinkhole [3] says that it is a tagging error to use natural=sink_hole. When I look at taginfo I see nearly 2000 occurances of natural=sink_hole and none for natural=sinkhole [4]. I guess the write of the wiki page disagreed with the spelling of the most used spelling of the tag value.

Anyway, back to waterways dissipating in the desert. Where the flowing water disappears varies considerably from storm to storm so maybe it shouldn’t even be a tag on the last node of the way. Maybe the last section of the way could have a tag instead?

Would a tag on the way be better or worse than a tag on the last node on the way?

Maybe a discussion on this will turn up a possible way to map the situation.

Thank you for the responses so far!


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain
[2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=manhole%3Ddrain
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dsinkhole
[3] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=natural%3Dsink

> On Jul 20, 2020, at 3:19 PM, Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> wrote:
> Manhole=drain has more than 2000 uses, most of them seem to be water drainage grids with no access for humans.
> But if you want to retag them with something different you would need to do this manually.
> I would not touch it, even if it is an unfortunate tagging.
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 21:33, Alan Mackie <aamackie at gmail.com <mailto:aamackie at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 11:28, Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com <mailto:pla16021 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 10:59, Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com <mailto:voschix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are not suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the wikipage <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain>
> People have used manhole=drain for that purpose and the wikipage
> for manhole=drain documents that use.  However, that photo appears
> to be of a UK storm drain which is not a manhole by my definition
> (too small for entry by a person) or by the wiki's definition for
> Key:manhole which states "Hole with a cover that allows access to
> an underground service location, just large enough for a human to climb
> through."
> In my opinion we should deprecate manhole=drain except where
> it really is large enough for access by a person.  We need a
> better tag.  Well, two tags.  One for storm drains and one
> for sinks that are too small to merit natural=sinkhole with
> any of the current sinkhole=* types.  Oh, and a tag for
> spreads, too.
> --
> Paul
> I think we also need one for "entrances" to pipes/tunnels of unknown extent where the entrance is by horizontal movement of the water rather than by falling into a hole. The presence/absence of gratings or mesh may be useful for these too.
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