[Tagging] Waterway equivalent of noexit=yes?

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Wed Jul 22 15:43:45 UTC 2020


Re: natural=sinkhole - this tag has been used 9908 times:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=natural&value=sinkhole

It is widely distributed:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=sinkhole#map

In contrast, natural=sink_hole appears to have only been used in 2 areas in
England, mostly added 1 year ago by a certain mapper:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=sink_hole#map - I assume
this was a mistake.

– Joseph Eisenberg

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:27 AM Tod Fitch <tod at fitchfamily.org> wrote:

> It certainly would not be my pick of terms, but it seems manhole=drain has
> an appropriate definition in the wiki [1] and considerable use [2] for a
> place that water disappears into a man made structure. Most of them around
> here are not circular and many appear to be too small for a person to get
> into when the grate is removed. But OSM has odd tagging for other things so
> why not this too?
>
> I will start tagging that where the surface drainage ditches disappear
> into the ground. I wonder if QA tools like Osmose will stop nagging me
> about those waterways.
>
> We are still left with the situation where an ephemeral waterway fans out
> over the desert and disappears. We need some sort of tagging to indicate
> this is not a mistake and I’ve not seen a tag or value come up in this
> discussion that has any existing use or consensus in the list.
>
> These are definitely not sink holes and shouldn’t be tagged as such.
>
> Digression: The wiki page for natural=sinkhole [3] says that it is a
> tagging error to use natural=sink_hole. When I look at taginfo I see nearly
> 2000 occurances of natural=sink_hole and none for natural=sinkhole [4]. I
> guess the write of the wiki page disagreed with the spelling of the most
> used spelling of the tag value.
>
> Anyway, back to waterways dissipating in the desert. Where the flowing
> water disappears varies considerably from storm to storm so maybe it
> shouldn’t even be a tag on the last node of the way. Maybe the last section
> of the way could have a tag instead?
>
> Would a tag on the way be better or worse than a tag on the last node on
> the way?
>
> Maybe a discussion on this will turn up a possible way to map the
> situation.
>
> Thank you for the responses so far!
>
> —Tod
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain
> [2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=manhole%3Ddrain
> [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dsinkhole
> [3] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=natural%3Dsink
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2020, at 3:19 PM, Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Manhole=drain has more than 2000 uses, most of them seem to be water
> drainage grids with no access for humans.
> But if you want to retag them with something different you would need to
> do this manually.
> I would not touch it, even if it is an unfortunate tagging.
>
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 21:33, Alan Mackie <aamackie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 11:28, Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 10:59, Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> manhole=drain is widely used in OSM for water drainage grids, that are
>>>> not suitable for people to entr - se the photo on the wikipage
>>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:manhole%3Ddrain>
>>>>
>>>
>>> People have used manhole=drain for that purpose and the wikipage
>>> for manhole=drain documents that use.  However, that photo appears
>>> to be of a UK storm drain which is not a manhole by my definition
>>> (too small for entry by a person) or by the wiki's definition for
>>> Key:manhole which states "Hole with a cover that allows access to
>>> an underground service location, just large enough for a human to climb
>>> through."
>>>
>>> In my opinion we should deprecate manhole=drain except where
>>> it really is large enough for access by a person.  We need a
>>> better tag.  Well, two tags.  One for storm drains and one
>>> for sinks that are too small to merit natural=sinkhole with
>>> any of the current sinkhole=* types.  Oh, and a tag for
>>> spreads, too.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul
>>>
>>
>> I think we also need one for "entrances" to pipes/tunnels of unknown
>> extent where the entrance is by horizontal movement of the water rather
>> than by falling into a hole. The presence/absence of gratings or mesh may
>> be useful for these too.
>>
>>
>>
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