[Tagging] Central European insight needed: cukrászda, cukrárna, cukiernia, ciastkarnia, cukráreň, pasticceria, konditorei, patisserie, ...

Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdreist at gmail.com
Sun Jun 28 21:13:01 UTC 2020

sent from a phone

>> On 28. Jun 2020, at 21:55, Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Either you have very expensive cafes or very cheap restaurants. :)

clearly you could have both, so it is not a very good criterion. 

>  To over-generalize even further, a cafe is fast food with
> seats.  My local chip shop (fast food) has a seated area (making it a cafe)

I would expect a fast food to provide seating, not so comfortable seating probably, although it is not a must (unlike a cafe or restaurant where it is a requirement). A fast food is designed to eat and walk out, in a  restaurant you would also walk in, order, wait, eat and afterwards leave, but you would spend much more time there (and they will not kick you out if you kept sitting and talking for some time after you finished eating).
A cafe is more like a pub in this regard, you typically meet there with other people and will stay longer as required to consume the food (that’s what it makes it expensive)

> is a distinction between cafe and restaurant that is made in some cultures.  Do we
> need to make that distinction in OSM?

we already decided that we want to distinguish these, but it now came out that for you a cafe is mainly a place to have breakfast or lunch, while in Germany a cafe is more a place to have a coffee and a piece of cake in the afternoon (typically you could also have breakfast there, and often also small stuff for lunch). 

>> Traditionally osm tags tend to be underspecified, and people read into thes 
>> e tags what they locally expect from the meaning of the word.
> From my viewpoint, that's not necessarily a good thing.  Not for a global map.

completely agree, it means people might use the same tag for different things and not become aware of it, because they locally have the same expectations, i.e. it works in their surroundings, but not on a global level
and the wiki just says “ A generally informal place with sit-down facilities selling beverages and light meals and/or snacks.”

which is a description that fits for pubs, cafes, bistros, bars, ...

>> E.g. an object tagged as amenity=pub is probably a place where you get something to eat in Britain, in Germany very less so.
> Back when I became old enough to drink in a pub, what you could get to eat consisted of
> bags of salted peanuts and crisps.

then it’s not so different :)

>  For some it's hard to decide if they're
> a pub that serves food or a restaurant that serves alcohol. 

do you have restaurants that do not serve alcohol?

>  Please don't ask
> me about bread with chocolate in it (I noticed a shop a few miles from me is
> now offering it) as that's a bit of a taxonomic pain.

seems like clearly “sweets”, not?

Cheers Martin 
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