[Tagging] lanes - is "parking allowed" a parking lane?

Alex supaplex at riseup.net
Thu Nov 19 17:25:21 UTC 2020


I'm not sure if your first case
(https://westnordost.de/misc/2or1lanes.jpg) should be mapped as parallel
parking at all or if it's illegal parking and should actually be
no_parking or no_stopping (maybe depends on the local legislation or
permanence of the situation)? I recently discussed a similar case with
another mapper: Here it was about de facto parallel parking in a
living_street outside of designated parking areas, which is illegal at
least according to the traffic regulations in force here (which is even
indicated by a sign at this street!). See this picture:
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/0kZ-LZX4-J36J5xov_UBvw

In this situation I argued for "map what is on the ground" and for
mapping the situation as de facto parallel parking (the cars have been
parked there for years, as can be seen on aerial photographs). My
counterpart was against this. In the meantime, the situation has been
resolved by the fact that the public order office has distributed
parking tickets several times and the street is no longer permanently,
but only sporadically, parked :)

But I am not sure whether there is a basic consensus on how to deal with
contradictions between de facto and de jure situations like this in OSM?
In my opinion, this should be clarified at first.

I am currently also working on parking lane analyses (see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Supaplex030/Parkplatzanalyse_Neuk%C3%B6lln,
sry for german language at present) and therefor differentiate between
(1) on_street, (2) half_on_street and (3)
on_kerb/shoulder/lay_by/street_side parking (for street side parking see
the current proposal under vote:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/parking%3Dstreet_side).

I think a distinction between "on_street" and "lane", as you suggested,
is unnecessary or too error-prone. Already when differentiating between
on_street (= lane) and street_side parking I noticed that these cases
are sometimes difficult to distinguish, especially when there are kerb
extensions. Wouldn't it be better to simply distinguish between marked
and unmarked parallel parking lanes and work with width:* values
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:width#Width_of_streets) instead
of lane information?

Cheers,
Alex / Supaplex030


Am 19.11.20 um 15:17 schrieb Tobias Zwick:
> Hello all
>
> First of all, in the past, we have explored many edge cases for the
> lanes-tag in various discussions and I am happy that for the most
> part, it seems to be quite well defined by now. However, there is one
> edge case which is not uncommon at all but still unclear or awkward to
> tag. Look at this:
>
> https://westnordost.de/misc/2or1lanes.jpg
>
> It is a residential road marked clearly for 2 lanes, so it seems
> obvious to tag it with lanes=2. But on the other hand, you'll notice
> that there are parking cars on the right side that effectively render
> the right lane unusable. These parking cars would (currently) be
> tagged I believe as
>
> parking:lane:right=parallel
> parking:lane:right:parallel=on_street
>
> And the wiki states
>
> > And the following lanes should be excluded:
> > [...] Parking lanes [...]
>
> So here is an ambiguity in the documentation. On the one hand, if the
> road has marked lanes, the number of marked lanes should be tagged, on
> the other hand, there are these kind of "parking lanes" which do not
> have their own space marked as a parking lane but simply absorb the
> space assigned to normal car traffic. In OSM tagging, these are also
> "parking:lane"s as far as I know.
>
> We need to dissolve this ambiguity by defining a way how to
> distinguish between these two cases:
>
> https://westnordost.de/misc/parallel_parking_lane.png
> (1) a dedicated parallel parking lane. This lane should not count as a
> lane in the lanes-tag.
> (2) (parallel) parking is allowed (and used). This should be
> irrelevant for the lane count.
>
> My suggestion would be
> (1) parking:lane:*:parallel = lane
> (2) parking:lane:*:parallel = on_street
>
> Maybe especially those who recently involved themselves with parking
> lane tagging out and about and its documentation could also state
> their point of view here. According to the wiki edit history, looks
> like at least Mateusz Konieczny, Supaplex030 and Minh Nguyễn were active.
> What do you think?
>
> There is also at least one data consumer I know about that is using
> parking lane information and displays it visually,
> https://github.com/dabreegster/abstreet it would be good to know how
> they interpret and visualize the data.
>
> Cheers
> Tobias
>
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