[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - shop as post-partner

[Paul Allen]

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 16:23, Robin Burek <robin.burek at gmx.de> wrote:

> Am 11.02.2021 um 16:55 schrieb Paul Allen:
>
>
>    1. One feature, one OSM element -> This is one shop - so it has to get
>    one Objekt!
>
> These are two different features within one building.  This is not a single
> node with several features, which is what you are proposing.
>
>>
>>    1. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wii/One_feature,_one_OSM_element
>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element>
>>
>> There is absolutely nothing in that which prohibits two nodes in close
> proximity representing two different features.  Or nodes within a building
> representing sub-features, such as elevators.
>
> Do you map then every meat counter and cheese counter in a supermarket as
> several Objekts (as shop=butcher or shop=cheese)? I don't think so, that
> are all services of one shop=supermarket.
>
Indeed they are.  I'd expect most supermarkets to sell those things.  I
don't
expect most supermarkets to have post office counters.

I don't expect most supermarkets to have an optician, yet
some do.

I don't expect most chain stores to have a dispensing
pharmacist, and yet some do.

There is a concept known as "shop in shop."  A business,
partitioned off in some way from the rest of the shop, selling
things you wouldn't expect that type of shop to sell.  If
they were in two adjoining buildings you'd have no
hesitation in mapping them separately.

A supermarket near me has two wall-mounted ATMs.  Which
I've mapped as nodes in the wall of the supermarket building,
because that is a perfectly valid thing to do despite your
insistence that the supermarket building is somehow a
single object and nothing else must be mapped within the
confines of that building.

> And so the postal services are services of the shop/amenity (in this case
> on behalf)
>
Not in the UK.  In the UK they are legally distinct entities.  Co-located,
and often with shared staff, but legally distinct.

> I am tagging WHAT IS THERE IN REALITY.
>
> In reallity there is a post-counter in another shop/amenity not an post
> office.
>
Which you would have no hesitation mapping separately if it were in an
adjoining building.  How about in the same building but with solid
partitions from floor to ceiling?  And legally it IS a post office.  In
one town I know of it is the MAIN post office, not just a sub-post
office.

> And yet there is.  In any shop I'm aware of in the UK that offers a post
> office
> service the counter is physically separated by barriers from ordinary shop
> counters.  One counter handles postal services and nothing else.
> One or more counters handle non-postal services.
>
> An wich employees operate the counters?
>
In the stores which have a main post office then it is usually
separate staff.  In the sub-post offices it is a subset of the
shop staff.

> When the staff of the shop -> service of the shop.
> When the staff of the post -> post_office
> That have I already said, and that stand in the proposal.
>
You think that makes a significant difference, I do not.  In the
UK the tills and back-end computers are different. Stringent
checks are made to ensure there is no uncontrolled mixing
of cash.  Staff who operate the post office side have to meet
stringent requirements that the other staff do not.

> You, however, wish to use a single object to represent multiple things and
> it appears you want to do this because you don't like maintaining two sets
> of opening hours.
>
> No, two sets of all. And not only me, thats is a wish in Germany longer
> ago. Thats a problem, that exists more than 3 years now (last forum) and
> have discussed in German-Userspace often before this time.
>
Just because a solution works in Germany that does not mean it works in
the wider world.

> In last time I have solved some errors, because there was displayed an
> "post_office" that stands where none exists. And why? The shop, who
> operatet this postal service was closed often more than two or three years
> ago. And an user deleted only the shop....
>
Sometimes people don't catch everything when deleting things.  Although
it is not hard to miss if they check the results.  Delete the shop, there's
still a post office symbol.  It's hard to miss, if you bother to check.

So now we have two reasons for doing it your way.  Firstly, you don't like
having to enter the opening hours twice.  Secondly, somebody was careless
when deleting a shop.  I don't consider either of those reasons compelling.

-- 
Paul
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