[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - holy well

Thu Feb 18 21:45:00 UTC 2021

BTW: "pattern" is an Irish English term for "Patron Saint". So that part of
the definition should be translated fro Irisch English to British English.
And Christian "Saints" are not deities, at least according to the official
Roman Catholic Teaching. So this would "entty of veneratio (Saint,
deity,...)"

I am aware of such places also in the Roman Catholic German speaking areas.
There is often a spring near or even inside a chapel. It works in a
different way: people go to the chapel and pray to the local Saint and use
the supposed healing capabilities of the water. For example they may wash
their head against headaches and the like, because that particular spring
can help, I guess I would not call the well holy, but the chapel would be
holy place. Obviously many of these places date back to ancient Roman
times, when each spring had its own deuty. When the Christian faith arrived
the priests tried would build on the local traditions, and build a chapel
or church on top of the Roman sanctuary, and replaced the "pagan" deity
with a "Christian" Saint.
What i'm really asking: is the well the holy object of devotion, or the
nearby chapel or shrine or cross.
And, obviously, there are other parts of the world where the spring or well
itself is the residence of a deity..
Coming back to the Chistian context: I know of places where the chapel is
near to a spring or well, but not on top of it. And the spring or well can
be also a short distance away. Would that chapel still be "with a holy
well", or would the spring be the holy place and the chapel a separate,
nearby holy place?

Regards

Violker

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On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 21:50, Anne-Karoline Distel <annekadistel at web.de>
wrote:

> For Ireland, it is easy enough:
> Do people call it a holy well? - It is a holy well.
>
> Is a saint associated with the well? - It is a holy well.
>
> Do people cross themselves when passing it? - It's a place of worship.
>
> Do people hold patterns every year? - It is a place of worship.
>
> Do people leave votive offerings? - It is a place of worship.
>
> Do people go there to pray? - It is a place of worship.
> Am 18/02/2021 um 20:32 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging:
>
> Many places with "miraculous water" / "blessed water" do not qualify for
> amenity=place_of_worship, and such tagging would be incorrect
>
> Feb 18, 2021, 21:25 by bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com:
>
> Dear Anne,
>
> You should abstain from using specific religious terms like "holy" and
> "paganism".
> To my honest opinion the existing tagging schemes and attribution for
> amenity=place_of_worship combined with tourist=attraction offer enough
> flexibility and most of all neutrality in the religious context to suite
> your needs.
> Of course there are numerous wells across the world with either a
> religious significance (sometimes the same well is significant in different
> religions or to different denominations). Some have significance for
> tourism purposes, others might be preferred by the worshippers, to be
> accessible only in a more private context.
> Please read through the related wiki pages, to my opinion very detailed
> and of high quality to address your local specific needs and offering
> enough variation for any religious or tourist related significance. You can
> extend them to suite your specific needs, I personally see no need for a
> new key or value for this purpose or revert to a proposal if you feel you
> need broader confirmation from the community. Do respect neutrality in the
> additions or modifications.
>
> Greetings, Bert Araali
>
>
> On 18/02/2021 21:31, Anne-Karoline Distel wrote:
>
> I understand it's a bit of a tricky one. Wishing wells/ fountains mostly
> used by tourists should not count, because there is not an established
> religion behind that thinking of leaving a coin for good luck. They are all
> votive offerings though, no matter if they are rags or coins or whatever
> else people leave there (probably masks now, I haven't been to a site since
> lockdown).
>
> Good rule of thumb: If it has a saint's name attached, it's a holy well.
> Or rather "holy well".
>
> Anne
> Am 18/02/2021 um 16:04 schrieb Volker Schmidt:
>
> Interesting idea.
> But difficult to define.
> There is a wide spectrum from really sacred places, like chapels with a
> spring inside to the wells or fountains where people go with plastic
> bottles
> to collect "good" or "healthy" water.and the wells that tourists fill with
> coins (no drinking water there).
> I would rather see this somehow under the tourism tent - pilgrimage is the
> original form of tourism.
>
> Volker
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 14:42, Anne-Karoline Distel <annekadistel at web.de>
> wrote:
>
> It's me again, full of ideas.
>
> I propose a tag for holy wells, one of the reasons being that my local
> council wants them mapped and I've been trying to convince them to use
> OSM for a while. Also, because it would entice rural mappers to get
> started and because they play a role in tourism (if you count pilgrimage
> as tourism).
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holy_well
>
> I'm especially interested in other religions' perspective, but I don't
> know if this phenomenon exists outside Christianity and Paganism.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anne
>
>
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