[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - holy well

Bert -Araali- Van Opstal bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
Thu Feb 18 23:00:12 UTC 2021 

True, except I don't see the need to introduce a new term used as a key
to express it's relation to one specific religion.  If it is called a
holy well in Ireland it's fine, you give that in one of the name keys. 
I don't see how that can disturb any ones believes, not for the locals
in Ireland or the tourist that visit them. But if we want to keep our
keys non-discriminating it remains a well, describing perfectly what the
well might look like.
I guess if they, or some of them, are also important in tourism, not all
tourist are Christians and even might feel offended by the word "holy".
If someone is an atheist, is thirsty and uses a map based on OSM data to
search for a public place to drink water from a well, he will hardly
find any implementations where he specifically needs to search for a
"holy well" or for my part a "holy tap" or a "holy spring".

On 18/02/2021 23:47, Anne-Karoline Distel wrote:
>
> For Ireland, it is easy enough:
> Do people call it a holy well? - It is a holy well.
>
> Is a saint associated with the well? - It is a holy well.
>
> Do people cross themselves when passing it? - It's a place of worship.
>
> Do people hold patterns every year? - It is a place of worship.
>
> Do people leave votive offerings? - It is a place of worship.
>
> Do people go there to pray? - It is a place of worship.
>
> Am 18/02/2021 um 20:32 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging:
>> Many places with "miraculous water" / "blessed water" do not qualify for
>> amenity=place_of_worship, and such tagging would be incorrect
>>
>> Feb 18, 2021, 21:25 by bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com:
>>
>>     Dear Anne,
>>
>>     You should abstain from using specific religious terms like
>>     "holy" and "paganism".
>>     To my honest opinion the existing tagging schemes and attribution
>>     for amenity=place_of_worship combined with tourist=attraction
>>     offer enough flexibility and most of all neutrality in the
>>     religious context to suite your needs.
>>     Of course there are numerous wells across the world with either a
>>     religious significance (sometimes the same well is significant in
>>     different religions or to different denominations). Some have
>>     significance for tourism purposes, others might be preferred by
>>     the worshippers, to be accessible only in a more private context.
>>     Please read through the related wiki pages, to my opinion very
>>     detailed and of high quality to address your local specific needs
>>     and offering enough variation for any religious or tourist
>>     related significance. You can extend them to suite your specific
>>     needs, I personally see no need for a new key or value for this
>>     purpose or revert to a proposal if you feel you need broader
>>     confirmation from the community. Do respect neutrality in the
>>     additions or modifications.
>>
>>     Greetings, Bert Araali
>>
>>
>>     On 18/02/2021 21:31, Anne-Karoline Distel wrote:
>>>
>>>     I understand it's a bit of a tricky one. Wishing wells/
>>>     fountains mostly used by tourists should not count, because
>>>     there is not an established religion behind that thinking of
>>>     leaving a coin for good luck. They are all votive offerings
>>>     though, no matter if they are rags or coins or whatever else
>>>     people leave there (probably masks now, I haven't been to a site
>>>     since lockdown).
>>>
>>>     Good rule of thumb: If it has a saint's name attached, it's a
>>>     holy well. Or rather "holy well".
>>>
>>>     Anne
>>>
>>>     Am 18/02/2021 um 16:04 schrieb Volker Schmidt:
>>>>     Interesting idea.
>>>>     But difficult to define.
>>>>     There is a wide spectrum from really sacred places, like
>>>>     chapels with a spring inside to the wells or fountains where
>>>>     people go with plastic bottles
>>>>     to collect "good" or "healthy" water.and the wells that
>>>>     tourists fill with coins (no drinking water there).
>>>>     I would rather see this somehow under the tourism tent -
>>>>     pilgrimage is the original form of tourism.
>>>>
>>>>     Volker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 14:42, Anne-Karoline Distel
>>>>     <annekadistel at web.de <mailto:annekadistel at web.de>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         It's me again, full of ideas.
>>>>
>>>>         I propose a tag for holy wells, one of the reasons being
>>>>         that my local
>>>>         council wants them mapped and I've been trying to convince
>>>>         them to use
>>>>         OSM for a while. Also, because it would entice rural
>>>>         mappers to get
>>>>         started and because they play a role in tourism (if you
>>>>         count pilgrimage
>>>>         as tourism).
>>>>
>>>>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holy_well
>>>>
>>>>         I'm especially interested in other religions' perspective,
>>>>         but I don't
>>>>         know if this phenomenon exists outside Christianity and
>>>>         Paganism.
>>>>
>>>>         Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>         Anne
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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