[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - shop as post-partner

[Bert -Araali- Van Opstal]

On 28/02/2021 16:20, Paul Allen wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 at 20:39, Georg <georg2016 at nurfuerspam.de 
> <mailto:georg2016 at nurfuerspam.de>> wrote:
>
>
>     As fas as I saw on yodel's website, they do only offer to pick up
>     parcels - this is just a fraction of the services that are commonly
>     offered by the post/courier/logistics/whateverYouCallThem partner
>     shops
>     in DE, SE etc.
>
>
> As far as I know, Yodel only handles parcels.  Other companies, such as
> Whistl https://www.whistl.co.uk/about-us 
> <https://www.whistl.co.uk/about-us> do letters and parcels (please
> don't ask me to explain Whistl's corporate marketing blurb, I can't
> decipher it myself).
>
>     I understood that you "just" reject that the word "post" is part
>     of the
>     key name because that word's British English meaning does not describe
>     that thing we want to descibe/tag, and British English is the
>     reference
>     for OSM.
>
>
> But it's also true in Germany.  You point out that German mappers are
> reluctant to call these places post offices.  Would you call one of
> these places a post office if it was a shop within a shop?  Would you
> call it a post office if it occupied the entire building and sold no
> items/services unrelated to letters, parcels, etc?
>
>     English is not my mother tongue (just like for others involved in thr
>     proposal), hence, I don't know the fine differences between "post" and
>     "courier". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier
>     <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier> explains
>      > Couriers are distinguished from ordinary mail services by features
>      > such as speed, security, tracking, signature, specialization and
>      > individualization of express services, and swift delivery times,
>      > which are optional for most everyday mail services. As a premium
>      > service, couriers are usually more expensive than standard mail
>      > services,
>
>
> Sometimes wikipedia over-simplifies.  In the past couriers were
> more expensive but offered some additional features. These days
> some couriers compete on price rather than features.
>
> If you want an alternative term (but also more ambiguous) there is
> "carrier."  Too ambiguous for my liking.
>
> There is also "logistics" perhaps combined with other words.  I
> don't like that because transporting military supplies is also
> logistics.  It's not restricted to letters/parcels.  Any sort of
> supply transport is logistics.  The company that delivers
> beer to my local pub is a logistics company (DHL) that
> also delivers parcels.
>
>     So what other, less misleading wording could we use? Logistics,
>     Delivery
>     services, Messengers etc.
>
>
> Looking through various wikipedia articles, I found that "mail" refers
> to a system of physically transporting postcards, letters and parcels.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail> Wikipedia considers mail to be
> synonymous with "post."
>
> I haven't pondered it deeply, but (right now) "mail" seems like a good
> prefix.  Unlike "post" there is no implicit confusion with "post office."
> Yes, the delivery arm of our official postal service is called "Royal
> Mail" but they don't have shops you can walk into (although larger
> towns will have a sorting office you can collect parcels from if
> they can't be delivered).
>
>
>     First, we did set as basic rule that we do not map for renderers.
>
>
> The rule is not to TAG for renderers.  Some of us think that the
> rule is badly worded and we shouldn't mistag for renderers.
> Don't map a residential road as a motorway because you want it
> rendered as a thicker, different-coloured line on the map.  But you
> do expect a residential road to render in some manner at higher
> resolutions on non-specialized carto.  If you expect that data
> consumers would want to be able to look at a map to find X
> then it is helpful if X is rendered.  If you don't expect people to
> look for it, why map it?
>
>
>     Last, many data consumers like maps.me <http://maps.me>, OsmAnd,
>     Locus,... but also OSM
>     map website are able to search + filter for tags, so you can find it.
>
>
> I'm looking at the OSM map right now.  There's an input box to search for
> names, nothing to search for post offices.  I can find post offices that
> are named "Post Office" but there are a lot of those (the first result I
> got was in Nigeria).  Is there a feature on the standard map I'm
> unaware of?
Nominatim uses the search bow to look for values in many fields, not 
just the name field.

The list of supported keys, where it looks for these values can be found 
here: 
https://github.com/osm-search/Nominatim/blob/master/settings/import-extratags.style 
<https://github.com/osm-search/Nominatim/blob/master/settings/import-extratags.style>.

As in regard to post-offices, amenity=post_office, is not searched as such:

> "keys" : ["amenity"],
>
> "values" : {
>
> "restaurant" : "main,operator",
>
> "fuel" : "main,operator"
>
> }
>
> },
>
> {
>
> "keys" : ["aeroway", "amenity", "club", "craft", "leisure",
>
> "office", "mountain_pass"],
>
> "values" : {
>
> "no" : "skip",
>
> "" : "main"
>
> }
>
> },
> {
>
I didn't program it nor a specialist but as seen from the aboce, 
Nominatim will search for the value you eneter in the search box in:

the main name key and in the operator key, only when the amenity is a 
restaurant or fuel.
In all other cases (except amenity=no) it will look for the value only 
in the name key.
There is no specific way as far as I can see to look for the value 
post_office in the amenity key.

If you enter post_office as a search value, it comes up with all POI's 
where post_office is contained in the name or where mappers have 
contained it in another key, like I am seeing lots of results where 
addr:housename contains Post office or variant of that value.  Done this 
way to map for a specific data consumer, Nominatim ?
The Africans, as usually, solved it by putting the name Post Office in 
the name key which is also not good practice. But that is what users do, 
being creative if the proposed or approved tagging doesn't give a 
feasible solution, for data processing, for rendering or for mapping 
purposes, that's the mess you get.

But please, correct me if I am wrong.


>
> -- 
> Paul
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20210228/8d7cfeb5/attachment-0001.htm>