[Tagging] Proposed feature - Voting - electricity

Sun Jan 3 02:37:06 UTC 2021

Hi all,

Let's also not forget about the african context where this tag is currently
most used. The electricity=* tag is very helpful in the humanitarian sector
to know if facilities (health posts, hospitals, accomodation sites...) and
individual houses are connected to an electricity grid, or if it is using
its own electricity source (solar panels on the roof, fuel-powered
generator, wind turbine...), or if it has no electricity at all. Maybe this
doesn't make much sense in developed countries where all facilities and
individual houses are supposed to have electricity, so the tag might have a
slightly different purpose as said above.

I think the currently proposed tagging should be fine for a global context.

Also, a switch to renewable energy might not be a thing of this century for
my country :-)

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:27 PM Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de> wrote:

> That is *precisely* the purpose of the tagging.
>
> The conversation got a bit off-track questioning the longevity of the tag,
> but I think it will still be relevant for 20-30 years. I mean we have
> tagging for covid19 opening hours - they'll hopefully have a shorter
> lifespan!
> On 02/01/2021 20:00, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:
>
> I was under the impression that the purpose of tagging the electricity
> source was for electricity consumers that wished to discern between green
> energy and fossil fuel-supplied energy (or some other characteristic which
> might influence their decision) when "shopping", if you will, for a
> point-of-use electricity provider.
>
> However, if an entire region or country has their electricity supplied by
> a common source, I would not be in favor of mapping every single electric
> outlet with this fact.
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:37 PM Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de> wrote:
>
>> Let's not be needlessly pedantic - sure 95% probably also works. The
>> point is, compared to the age of the map, this will be a relevant feature
>> for a significant amount of time, at least in some countries. If the feaure
>> is not advertised anymore, the tag dies out on its own.
>> On 02/01/2021 15:55, Paul Allen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 14:32, Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>>> When a country completely switches to renewable energies in their grid,
>>> I would be overjoyed to completely delete the electricity:grid:origin tags
>>> in that region.
>>>
>> So you think it necessary to wait for 100% renewable on the grid?
>> 99.99999% is not good enough?  How about 99%?  98%?  Where
>> do you draw the line on that?
>> In reality, the point where the tag can be removed is when nobody
>> advertises the source any more.  And that will come long before
>> 100% (or 98%) switchover on the grid.  At some point there is
>> no financial return to be had from advertising renewable sources,
>> when non-renewable sources are a rare exception.  That point
>> will actually be even earlier than that, when renewables are
>> common enough that the gains from advertising renewable
>> sources fall short of the costs of the advertising.
>>
>>> Most countries are aiming for this to occur by 2050 with many still
>>> falling
>>>
>> China recently changed the game.  It realized it was now cheaper to use
>> renewables than non-renewables, so committed to a shorter timescale.
>> Economies of scale from China alone mean that renewable costs,
>> already cheaper than non-renewable, will fall even more.  There's
>> a reason Exxon-Mobil is no longer in the Dow Jones 30-stock
>> benchmark: it's not going to be a big profit maker in the future
>> so people are no longer paying a lot for the stock.
>>
>> Advanced countries with competent leadership are starting to follow
>> China's lead as they realize there's a large manufacturing industry
>> developing that will be based in China unless they set up their own
>> industries.  They either compete with China now or buy the hardware
>> from China for a long time to come.
>>
>> We have reached a tipping-point in the climate change crisis: the one
>> where it's cheaper RIGHT NOW to do something than not do
>> something.  Future returns are not great drivers: "Do something
>> now or you'll regret it in 30 years because of the expense of
>>
>> dealing with severe climate change" doesn't influence markets
>> much.  "Do it now and you'll make money now" is a great driver.
>>
>> I don't see this tag having a long life.
>>
>> --
>> Paul
>>
>>
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