[Tagging] maxspeed:signed=no - new proposed tag

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Tue Jan 5 02:41:31 UTC 2021


I agree, Minh Nguyen, it's much easier for a mapper to tag
"maxspeed:signed=no" to state that "there is no signed maxspeed here"

Then later other mappers can add the actual maxspeed which applies if they
know all the ins and outs.

This sort of tag would also be useful in Indonesia, where most drivers
never learn much about such laws before getting their license. I suspect
there are other countries where default max speed laws are poorly known,
even by the police.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 5:48 PM Minh Nguyen via Tagging <
tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Vào lúc 15:43 2021-01-03, Martin Koppenhoefer đã viết:
> >
> >
> > sent from a phone
> >
> >> On 3 Jan 2021, at 22:17, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> (1) we have no tag for "there is no maxspeed signage applying here"
> >
> >
> >
> > we do, source:maxspeed is about this
>
> source:maxspeed=* seems capable of indicating the presence of a default
> speed limit, since apparently the "<country_code>:<context>" syntax is
> only for unsignposted speed limits. [1] But in the scenario Mateusz
> describes -- an intrepid surveyor tags a street beforehand to flag it to
> armchair legal analysts -- how would the surveyor know which context to
> assign? Also, wouldn't it be strange to see source:maxspeed=* on a
> feature without maxspeed=*?
>
> The "<country_code>:<context>" syntax is also overly simplistic. It's
> telling that no one has attempted to extend the table at [2] with values
> for the U.S. Each state has plenty of default speed limit contexts, some
> of which defy the OSM tagging model. [3]
>
> There seems to be significant usage of *:signed=no for things like
> maxweight, opening_hours, and name, so extending the scheme to maxspeed
> seems obvious to me. If the legal analyst bot can find-and-replace
> maxspeed:signed=no with the appropriate maxspeed=* and source:maxspeed=*
> afterwards, so much the better.
>
> >>
> >> (3) tagging exact max speed is often de facto impossible as it
> >> requires remembering that there are separate rules for ...
> >
> >
> > impossible? You have to know the local rules, that’s far from
> impossible, it’s rather a requirement that you can safely drive on these
> roads.
>
> Not everyone who surveys for OSM does so behind the wheel or even has a
> driver's license. Not many data consumers can consult a local licensed
> driver for the correct answer on demand. ;-)
>
> Even someone who does drive may not have a full grasp of default speed
> limits in their jurisdiction. Where I learned to drive, default speed
> limits are the norm in rural areas and some suburbs, but even the
> official driver's handbook that you're required to familiarize yourself
> with [4] doesn't capture the whole default speed limit decision tree. [5]
>
> [1]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/2084425#How_to_tag
> [2]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/2084425#Context_Specific_Values_.28Default_Limits.29
> [3]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Default_speed_limits#California_business_districts
> [4] https://publicsafety.ohio.gov/static/hsy7607.pdf#page=45 (p. 41)
> [5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Speed_limits_in_Ohio.svg is
> even a simplification
>
> --
> minh at nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
>
>
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