[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Shrubbery V2

Sun Jul 25 08:03:11 UTC 2021

It is true that a lot of people know cultivation from agriculture but it is not limited to that. Take look at the quote from the gardening wiki below. There it also describes it as cultivating plants.  Agriculture is indeed a good example of what would be cultivated=intensely/fully and therefore we also imply that on the tag landuse=farmland atc.

"Gardening is the practice of growing and cultivating plants as part of horticulture<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulture>. In gardens, ornamental plants<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornamental_plant> are often grown for their flowers<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower>, foliage<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf>, or overall appearance; useful plants, such as root vegetables<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_root_vegetables>, leaf vegetables<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_vegetable>, fruits<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit>, and herbs<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb>, are grown for consumption, for use as dyes<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye>, or for medicinal<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine> or cosmetic<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmetics> use" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardening

I am always open for discussion so if you know a better word, feel free to tell me. Note that shrubbery V1 also covered a lot of alternatives already like manicured=* and landscaped=* and they didn't make it for reasons.

Vincent
________________________________
Van: Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2021 23:55
Aan: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
Onderwerp: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Shrubbery V2

I am obviously not a native spear of English, but I think cultivated does not express what you want. MW says:
: raised or grown on a farm or under other controlled conditions
: prepared and used for growing crops: having or showing good education, taste, and manners
Cultivated seems to be about raising / growing plants and crops, and not so much about keeping shrubs nice and manicured in decorative or protective patches.

You could argue it falls under "controlled conditions" but I think that refers to what the plants need for growth, like how much light they need or if they need pruning or irrigation, not so much how you shape the bush.

Peter Elderson

Op 24 jul. 2021 om 21:31 heeft Vincent van Duijnhoven <vvanduijnhoven at outlook.com> het volgende geschreven:

ï»¿
About the comment on the talk page, I am also considering the values there, so cultivated=no, cultivated=yes (named semi-natural in the proposal) and cultivate=intensely (name cultivated in the proposal). I still not so sure about the density tags as I described on the talk page,

About the Â¨Little bit of care" scrub. From the images, I also agree that these are uncultivated scrub. With the semi-natural scrub, we meant more like this: https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.1893347,6.022003,3a,21.6y,310.38h,86.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s59cpQAboumsVWUy5A_TgPk2Wkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.nl%2Fmaps%2F%4051.1893347%2C6.022003%2C3a%2C21.6y%2C310.38h%2C86.67t%2Fdata%3D!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s59cpQAboumsVWUy5A_TgPk2Wkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621288986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pG38pA0B2YHwnzEMa3Wnv06KjfU9dqQcvZpg3HIW%2F7k%3D&reserved=0>

About the word shrubbery, it is just a word to describe those highly cultivated shrubs.

Greetings,
Vincent
________________________________
Van: Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1 at gmail.com>
Verzonden: zaterdag 24 juli 2021 8:45
Aan: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
Onderwerp: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Shrubbery V2

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 at 16:52, Vincent van Duijnhoven <vvanduijnhoven at outlook.com<mailto:vvanduijnhoven at outlook.com>> wrote:
Why and how do you think cultivated can be mis-used?

I agree with a lot of what was mentioned at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/shrubbery#Suggestion_to_reconsider_the_values<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3AProposed_features%2Fshrubbery%23Suggestion_to_reconsider_the_values&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621288986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2k%2F%2BCT41NycxNFrfX%2F4NOkYzYajXiN%2BIIIHe9572Bak%3D&reserved=0>

In particular, when is a "little" bit of care "cultivation"?

I think I mentioned this example in the original proposal, but https://goo.gl/maps/WgxKvu2KoPJkK7oX6<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fmaps%2FWgxKvu2KoPJkK7oX6&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621298943%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BW2sHQIMoTOc4fE2nOz%2FQPA8m1EuQoodGigZywr3g7k%3D&reserved=0> & https://goo.gl/maps/UaDo4zmcEEcWeeFW6<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fmaps%2FUaDo4zmcEEcWeeFW6&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621298943%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=cDvwYvTxHG4IqlpIV4PR02sGmAWe5KLRlGQ4arj%2ByQs%3D&reserved=0> are areas at the back of our nearby beach. They were all originally planted, for dune stabilisation purposes, but then allowed to grow wild, with self-sown plants also flourishing in there. Occasionally, Council will lop branches that are growing out over the path, or they may go in & pull weeds out, but they're basically left alone.

I'd happily (& have done so!) call them natural=scrub, which would match with this proposal, but does lopping a few branches, or pulling particularly nasty weeds = cultivated?

Please don't get me wrong, I think the proposal as a whole is good, there's just a few words I have a slight problem with (shrubbery being one of them!), but as mentioned above ^, I think =scrub, =shrub & =shrubs should be fine.

Thanks

Graeme

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