[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Survey Markers

[Anne-Karoline Distel]

I have surveyed about 300 benchmarks (crowsfeet) in Ireland which are on
old Ordnance survey maps, but i only add those where I can confirm the
location, of course. These benchmarks were chiselled into existing
structures, mostly walls and bridges, but sometimes milestones or just
large stones in a field (very few of those left). However, some have
clearly been moved which is recognisable by the stone having been
rotated by 90 or 180° or being on the wrong side of a wall or gatepost
in comparison to the old maps. I would therefore propose a
survey_point:structure=moved rather than survey_point:structure=none to
indicate that the survey point is no longer in its original position. I
usually left a note or used moved=yes already. I haven't always checked
against older maps, though, in cases where I didn't go looking for them
and just found them.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnMSLbsWCbcSwaz15ZcSGxLogSXJlbGFuZMWIwp0KKi8KW291dDpqc29uXVt0aW1lxaXFpzI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZfFmcWbxZ3CgMKdxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUHFmGE6xofFmsWcfX0tPi7Gj3LFgsacxYDFuMW6xI_ElMSdciDFmHN1bHRzCigKICDGrnF1xJLEmsSjcnTFvG9yOsaExYnFi8WNxY_FkcWTxZ7GvCBud3JbIseNaMWOcmsiPSLFknMiXSjGgmHGp8WAxqloxqthKcW4x6_FucW7cMS3bseGxrTGtsa4CsWzxJjGmXnFuD7FuMe8c2vFmSBxdDs&c=BG7fzs-JkI&R
(don't know why it doesn't give me the short link)

Well done on the proposal!

Anne

On 04/06/2021 05:58, Kyle Hensel wrote:
>
> Hi, thanks for the feedback
>
> I agree if the survey point still exists but just the structure has
> been removed, then this proposal would suggest updating the tags from
> `survey_point:structure=(whatever) ` to ` survey_point:structure=none`
>
> > If you remove the point because it is no longer easily visible
>
> That’s not what’s suggested – if a survey marker still exists but is
> not easily visible, the proposal is to tag it as
> `survey_point:condition=not_visible`
>
> So this:
>
> survey_point:structure=none
>
> survey_point:condition=not_visible
>
> Is totally fine to map.
>
> I was just proposing that if neither the survey point nor the
> structure exists anymore, then it should be removed from OSM.
>
> This would only happen if a natural disaster or man_made earthworks
> removed all traces of it... do you think this is logical?
>
> My rationale for suggesting this, is that OSM shouldn’t be used to map
> historical, non-existent things according to:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don't%20map%20historic%20events%20and%20historic%20features
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don't%20map%20historic%20events%20and%20historic%20features>
>
> *From: *Michael Patrick <mailto:geodesy99 at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Friday, 4 June 2021 16:27
> *To: *tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Survey Markers
>
> > > survey_point:condition=destroyed is not proposed. If the survey
> marker no longer exists, it should be deleted from OSM.
>
> The survey point and observable evidence still exist, even though the
> monument may no longer be present. Monuments are 'lost' and
> 'recovered' all the time because of all sorts of events - vandalism,
> crime, natural disasters, land slips, forestry activity, etc.
>
> There is a whole domain of archeological survey forensics, with
> techniques such as discontinuities in soil, presence of rust
> particles, dissecting trees to find blazes, and even collecting oral
> histories.
>
> If you remove the point because it is no longer easily visible, then
> you are also obligated to remove many of the intermediary points that
> define the polylines of a lot of admin and park boundaries - those
> once had markers also ( especially near rivers ) and are now missing.
>
> Michael Patrick
>
>
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