[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Barbershop

Bert -Araali- Van Opstal bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com
Wed Mar 3 10:38:49 UTC 2021


On 03/03/2021 12:36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Am Mi., 3. März 2021 um 00:15 Uhr schrieb Bert -Araali- Van Opstal 
> <bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com 
> <mailto:bert.araali.afritastic at gmail.com>>:
>
>     This is an excellent opportunity to reconsider the
>     shop=hairdresser and shop=beauty. Both hairdresser and beauty
>     refer more to an amenity key (cultural and social) or a craft key
>     (service / skilled work).
>     A hairdresser or a beauty shop is in most cases not a place where
>     I go to buy something, but where I go to get a service from a
>     craftsmen and/or go for social interaction.
>
>     My preference would go to amenity = salon.
>     A salon is an establishment offering cosmetic treatments for men
>     and women. Salon is also called beauty parlour or beauty salon.
>     Beauty salons offer many treatments including, hair treatments,
>     skin treatments, facial aesthetics, aromatherapy, foot care and
>     nail manicures. Actually, in most African and Asian countries,
>     most "hairdressers" offer a mix of these services and might even
>     offer some food and bar like services.
>
>
> We do have a tag for beauty salons: 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbeauty 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dbeauty>
I pointed at it in the first sentence.  That was clear. I tried to 
explain that because they are split across two values it is very hard if 
not impossible to tag a hairdresser which offers both, as it is in many 
cases, not just in Africa. It invites to invent all kinds of 
constructions which are considered as not good practice.
> Not sure this applies to the kind of salons you are describing, which 
> also operate a bar and provide pool tables. Maybe you should propose a 
> new tag for this kind of place, if it can be defined in a way that it 
> is significantly different from what we have. These do not exist 
> around here, and I am hesitant to see them in the same category as a 
> barber shop, where you effectively would go for hair cutting and 
> shaving, but not pass your leisure time. shop=hairdresser works for 
> me, if it doesn't for your area, rather than deprecating the 
> established tag, see how you can deal with your situation.
Salon is a general and common term in English, and it covers exactly all 
the establishments that provide "beauty" related services, including 
barber_shop, specialised hairdresser etc... . Actually it is such a 
common term that it is adopted in many cultures and often used by the 
owners of these establishments to name then: in the UK but also in the 
US there are many Nail Salons, Hair Salons, in Dutch speaking countries 
"salon" is also used to name many of them.
I agree, many local variants exist as providing in secondary provisions, 
yet the main and primary purpose of all is to provide beauty services. 
If we would have a separate amenity tag it allows to tag these in most 
cases on one single node, with one top level key / value. Secondary 
activities can be easily added with additional tags.
I am clearly against creating all kinds of separate "local variant" 
values in top-level keys.  OSM and the tagging guidelines should cover 
the whole globe and all cultures, especially when a well known term like 
"salon" exists. Actually the term hairdresser is already a more 
"localised" tag.
Adding salon= hairdresser / barber_shop / and other "local" terms with 
good definitions (including the description of their social / cultural 
significance) only would support this.
>
> In some areas there may also be bathing facilities which offer body 
> care treatments by the way.
True, and they are amenities.  Yet, their are also many now tagged 
shop=beauty that offer some kind of bathing as part of the service they 
provide.  It is the same issue.  Do you go to a shop for bathing ? 
Neither do I go to a shop to have a hair cut. They are not shops in the 
strict sense.
>
>     Sometimes there are specialized salons dealing with specialized

>     treatments such as hair salons and nail salons.
>
>
>
> we have a specialized tag also for nail salons, it is under 
> shop=beauty beauty=nails. Btw., summarizing manicure and pedicure, 
> while I guess these are distinct services (who offers pedicure might 
> not offer manicure and vice versa) and maybe should be reconsidered.
True, shop=beauty, and that they are "specialised" values in a top level 
key creates all kind of problems and creativity because we can't combine 
them on a single node without inventing all kind of new "specialised" 
top-level values.
>
> While your suggestion to rethink this completely with amenity=salon 
> might work, we should acknowledge that there is already established 
> tagging, so my suggestion would rather be looking into how to 
> integrate distinct similar facilities or better specify what it is, 
> within the current system.
Change is difficult, I know, and I would not deprecate shop=hairdresser 
or shop=beauty, but redefine them as shops where you buy hairdresser 
accessories or beauty products and accessories. Indicate that for the 
places where you look for hair and other beauty related services, as 
primary activity, one should use amenity=salon and salon=*.

It repurposes them, and for sure there will be a transition period and 
ambiguity, but, without doing any detailed research, it will take away 
bad practices and ambiguity because the current top-level tag is too 
specialised.

Don't want to oppose your opinion here Martin, it has some good 
arguments, just wanted to provide some more context because it seemed 
what I proposed wasn't very clear, it is not an attempt to solve or 
incorporate a local variant into an existing one, in the contrary it is 
an idea offered to do exactly the opposite.

Greetings,

Bert Araali


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